CL Marksman Cut in half?

[I.see.fish]

Has the CL Marksman course been cut in half from six weeks to three weeks due to a lack of money?
A cadet told me this but the 09 schedule says it is six weeks and I am not sure what to believe... help?

 

[primer]

Starting next year all Cadet Leader courses will be 3 week courses

 

[wannabe SF member]

Has this been implemented to increase the numbres of cadets admitted on CL courses? Will there be two CL courses in a summer to compensate.

Also, what parts of the program is going to get cut? I don't see them being able to squeeze an entire six weeks in half that time, especially not the onw week outdoors part.

 

[crooks.a]

I know this is a late reply, but I'd like to properly answer this question.

If you look at CATO 40-01; Annex C, Appendix 1, you'll see the new camp layout.

Here is a general outline of what the marksmanship series could look like:

1st camp: GT (2 weeks)
2nd ": Basic Marksman (3 weeks)
3rd ": Fullbore Marksman, Phase 1 (6 or 7 weeks [not sure])
4th ": Fullbore Marksman, Phase 2 (6 or 7 weeks [not sure])
5th ": NRT (7 weeks [I think])
6th ": NRT (7 weeks [I think])

The second NRT opportunity is offered to the top 2(?) cadets on NRT. What they get is the opportunity to go back again and I believe that their primary job is coaching.

 

[primer]

I know this is a late reply, but I'd like to properly answer this question.

If you look at CATO 40-01; Annex C, Appendix 1, you'll see the new camp layout.

Here is a general outline of what the marksmanship series could look like:

1st camp: GT (2 weeks)
2nd ": Basic Marksman (3 weeks)
3rd ": Fullbore Marksman, Phase 1 (6 or 7 weeks [not sure])
4th ": Fullbore Marksman, Phase 2 (6 or 7 weeks [not sure])
5th ": NRT (7 weeks [I think])
6th ": NRT (7 weeks [I think])

The second NRT opportunity is offered to the top 2(?) cadets on NRT. What they get is the opportunity to go back again and I believe that their primary job is coaching.

It use to be that way back in the 80's CSTS CFB BORDEN

 

[matt1995]

I went to CL Marksman this past summer. They did not cut it in half. It would be impossible to make the course 3 weeks long because the cadets would not be prepared for Full bore Phase II. I wouldn't expect them cutting it in half anytime soon because it would be impossible to include all the necessary material in the course. 

 

[formercadet1029]

I was talking with somebody fairly far up in the food chain in the CIC last week, he told that ALL the second year CL camps have been or will be cut to 3 weeks in Ontario. He also told me that they are intending to run two sessions of each back to back as well.

I would suspect in the end this is likely a good decision in the over all long term plan if this is what they are indeed implementing. While this may seem like a drag for cadets at the this age who may qualify for these courses, in the end there will be more openings to put kids through and it will absolutely create a higher rate of cadets that are successful at completing/passing this course itself. 3 weeks is less time to get hurt, ill or endure anything else that may interrupt successful training for the cadet. You can bet that if they are going to be cut back from 6 to 3 weeks, it's going to be a very intense 3 weeks of training.

Now saying that, this is what I was told. Perhaps somebody from the League or a detachment office somewhere may be able to shed more light on this topic to either confirm or correct what I've stated here.

 

[sapperboysen]

What was CL Marksman, is now a third year course, equal to CLI. The new Basic Marksman course is now what was CL. General Training is now the first summer course and there is no specialization the first summer. It would have been nice if the name basic was removed to avoid confusion with the old program, but it wasn't. 

 

[JMesh]

CL no longer exists. None of the CL courses do. Under the new program (CPU - Cadet Program Update), everyone does General Training (2 weeks) in their first year (this course varies by element). In your second year, you enter a specialty. You will normally then remain in that specialty, though in some instances it can be changed, assuming you meet the pre-requisites For army cadets, the streams are:

• Ceremonial Leadership Series - Basic Leadership (3 weeks) - Drill and Ceremonial Instructor (6 weeks)
• Expedition Leadership Series - Basic Expedition (3 weeks) - Expedition Instructor (6 weeks) - Leadership and Challenge (6 weeks) - Senior Expeditions (i.e. OBW, OBS, Maple Leaf) (6 weeks)
• Fullbore Marksmanship Series - Basic Marksman (3 weeks) - Air Rifle Marksmanship Instructor (6 weeks)
• OR Fullbore Marksmanship Series - Basic Marksman (3 weeks) - Fullbore Marksman Phase I (7 weeks) - Fullbore Marksman Phase II (7 weeks) - National Army Cadet Rifle Team (8 weeks)
• Fitness and Sports Leadership Series - Basic Fitness and Sports (3 weeks) - Fitness and Sports Instructor (6 weeks)
• Military Band Series - Military Band - Basic Musician (3 weeks) - Military Band - Intermediate Musician (6 weeks) - Military Band - Advanced Musician (6 weeks)
• Pipe Band Series - Pipe Band - Basic Musician (3 weeks) - Pipe Band - Intermediate Musician (6 weeks) - Pipe Band - Advanced Musician (6 weeks)

Additionally, there will opportunities to be a staff cadet, to partake in various army cadet exchanges (5 weeks) and to take the CF Parachutist course (6 weeks) (these options are all for those 16 years of age or older).

To read up more on this and other things in the new army cadet program, take a look at CATO 40-01

 

[Neill McKay]

Under the new program (CPU - Cadet Program Update), everyone does General Training (2 weeks) in their first year (this course varies by element). In your second year, you enter a specialty. You will normally then remain in that specialty

One of the advantages to the changes in summer training with the CPU is that you do not have to remain in a specialty.  It will be much easier to take a variety of courses in different specialties.

As you say, there will be pre-requisites in some cases (e.g. sailing levels for the sea cadet sailing courses) but apart from those a cadet will be able to take a variety of courses and be better rounded in the end.

 

[JMesh]

One of the advantages to the changes in summer training with the CPU is that you do not have to remain in a specialty.  It will be much easier to take a variety of courses in different specialties.

As you say, there will be pre-requisites in some cases (e.g. sailing levels for the sea cadet sailing courses) but apart from those a cadet will be able to take a variety of courses and be better rounded in the end.

Thanks for letting me know on that one. Unlike sea cadets with the old Trade Group system, the specialty concept is generally new in the army world until the third and final year of core training (exempting bands and marksmanship), so I'm still getting used to it.

 

[formercadet1029]

CL no longer exists. None of the CL courses do. Under the new program (CPU - Cadet Program Update), everyone does General Training (2 weeks) in their first year (this course varies by element). In your second year, you enter a specialty. You will normally then remain in that specialty, though in some instances it can be changed, assuming you meet the pre-requisites For army cadets, the streams are:

• Ceremonial Leadership Series - Basic Leadership (3 weeks) - Drill and Ceremonial Instructor (6 weeks)
• Expedition Leadership Series - Basic Expedition (3 weeks) - Expedition Instructor (6 weeks) - Leadership and Challenge (6 weeks) - Senior Expeditions (i.e. OBW, OBS, Maple Leaf) (6 weeks)
• Fullbore Marksmanship Series - Basic Marksman (3 weeks) - Air Rifle Marksmanship Instructor (6 weeks)
• OR Fullbore Marksmanship Series - Basic Marksman (3 weeks) - Fullbore Marksman Phase I (7 weeks) - Fullbore Marksman Phase II (7 weeks) - National Army Cadet Rifle Team (8 weeks)
• Fitness and Sports Leadership Series - Basic Fitness and Sports (3 weeks) - Fitness and Sports Instructor (6 weeks)
• Military Band Series - Military Band - Basic Musician (3 weeks) - Military Band - Intermediate Musician (6 weeks) - Military Band - Advanced Musician (6 weeks)
• Pipe Band Series - Pipe Band - Basic Musician (3 weeks) - Pipe Band - Intermediate Musician (6 weeks) - Pipe Band - Advanced Musician (6 weeks)

Additionally, there will opportunities to be a staff cadet, to partake in various army cadet exchanges (5 weeks) and to take the CF Parachutist course (6 weeks) (these options are all for those 16 years of age or older).

To read up more on this and other things in the new army cadet program, take a look at CATO 40-01

Thanks for this info, I'll pass it along to those that are interested.