Close in Weapons System (CIWS)

[blacktriangle]

Speaking with some USN colleagues, they mentioned how Phalanx was in many cases being supplemented or entirely replaced by SeaRAM, and that Phalanx had also been adapted for use against threats posed by smaller craft.

In my mind, I see benefits and drawbacks to both systems and am curious if it would be beneficial to employ a combination of both on modern ships.

Anyone care to comment on what path we should be taking for future CIWS?


…curious to see what thoughts are currently, as most discussion in this thread is 7-8 years old.

 

[a_majoor]

I would suspect that any viable system would force any incoming threat to pass though multiple engagement layers, so a missile like SeaRAM and a CIWS on a ship would (or should) be the last two layers. In an ideal world the incoming threat would pass through an ECM bubble, face interception by a CAP, try to discover the target among multiple decoys and be shot at by longer range systems even before it comes close enough to a ship to be engaged by SeaRAM and then the CIWS.

The laser provides an option to give a ship more chances at an incoming round (or multiple rounds) since unlike a missile launcher or CIWS it has an "unlimited magazine" (so long as the electrical system can provide energy). I actually see an airborne laser platform orbiting overhead being a better solution since it would have a longer line of sight for both the sensors and the weapon, but that would be a long way in the future.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

the problem I hear about the Phalanx is that it will consume it's ammo load in a very short time, so you will have a fair bit of downtime, if you have the missiles on the same mount it means they can't be used while the gun is being resupplied.


This strikes me as a very doable system that adds capability of AD at a minimal cost. Throw in some 35mm mounts

 

[NavyShooter]

A well drilled CIWS Upload team can upload 1500 rounds in less than 30 minutes.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Under fire I bet you can do it even faster! Still it can expend that load in 20 seconds or so. How many engagements do they get out of the 1500rd load normally?

 

[WestCoaster]

A well drilled CIWS Upload team can upload 1500 rounds in less than 30 minutes.

Under fire I bet you can do it even faster! Still it can expend that load in 20 seconds or so. How many engagements do they get out of the 1500rd load normally?

Highly doubt it would even be considered under fire. At that point, there are other things to worry about than upload that beast. I found the upload/download process very resource intensive (personnel, HERO & HERP precautions, etc). It always boggled my mind that a modification wasn't made to feed the drum from the mag the CIWS sits on top of. This would definitely simplify and quicken things, but beyond my engineering knowledge of whether it is even possible. I know a major mod would have to be done to the system (and done by the manufacturer) itself.

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

the problem I hear about the Phalanx is that it will consume it's ammo load in a very short time, so you will have a fair bit of downtime, if you have the missiles on the same mount it means they can't be used while the gun is being resupplied.


This strikes me as a very doable system that adds capability of AD at a minimal cost. Throw in some 35mm mounts

Are stingers capable of knocking out AShM's?

I didn't think they were?

Or are you just referring the mount's layout?


Matthew.

 

[NavyShooter]

Why add an extra mount when all you need to do is put a rack to put a couple of tubes on the side of a CIWS, and rig a remote trigger into FCER3 and OPS to uncage, and launch.

 

[George Wallace]

the problem I hear about the Phalanx is that it will consume it's ammo load in a very short time, so you will have a fair bit of downtime, if you have the missiles on the same mount it means they can't be used while the gun is being resupplied.


This strikes me as a very doable system that adds capability of AD at a minimal cost. Throw in some 35mm mounts

I would not like to be around when this system is actually in operation.  "CHECK BACKBLAST AREA!" comes to mind and this looks like it has the potential to maim more crew than enemy.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

I wonder how the combination of both CIWS and RAM might work?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Highly doubt it would even be considered under fire. At that point, there are other things to worry about than upload that beast. I found the upload/download process very resource intensive (personnel, HERO & HERP precautions, etc). It always boggled my mind that a modification wasn't made to feed the drum from the mag the CIWS sits on top of. This would definitely simplify and quicken things, but beyond my engineering knowledge of whether it is even possible. I know a major mod would have to be done to the system (and done by the manufacturer) itself.

I was thinking of another Falkland type engagement as that is the closest modern model to use and I as I recall the engagements came in in waves. You might be in the middle of reloading when the next wave comes in. I find the reloading odd as well, seems the designers were optimistic about the length of engagement. Also could be they were restrained by weight and/or costs

the missile system I pictures is straight off the Mistral class. Certainly is not a Anti-ship missile defence, but a good way to arm ships against air attack that might not otherwise have any defence. 

 

[blacktriangle]

I wonder how the combination of both CIWS and RAM might work?

I would be curious to know this as well…but not on the same mount. No point complicating something (reminds me of the MMEV of yesteryear…)

I was thinking more of 1 x SeaRAM to engage targets, and a CIWS mount for last ditch efforts and use against small boats. Would this extra layer be of any added value?