CMMA - replacing the CP140 Aurora

[Quirky]

If setting the auto-pilot after take-off and disengaging it just before short final is considered flying, then airline/transport have the most boring jobs in the world. Truckers have more machine-human engagement.

SAR Herc and Aurora pilots and Flight Engineers enter the chat

That picture isn't big enough. Besides, you said intercontinental flights, but now it's SAR in a herc? Which is it? 1000 hours with 100 landings isn't as impressive as 1000 hours with 700 landings.... Then again Airlines don't care and you'll be put in the same pool of people.

For the record - the CF18 has to be hand flown the whole time? Can you confirm it has no autopilot, etc?

IIRC, they have auto-throttle and heading/course holds, not sure about altitude.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

you said intercontinental flights, but now it's SAR in a herc? Which is it?

Actually, I never said anything about intercontinental flights. I did make a post to remind you/people that multi eng is more than Transport Sqns flying high. LRP spends a decent amount of time bouncing around at 200kts over a sporty sea state at 300’, and lower. SAR Herc (and Buff, even though they’re retired) crews likely spend a fair amount of time low being tossed around by mechanical turbulence and wind sheer.

Some of us multi folks fly like this...



You’re set and forget comment was just a wee bit too wide of a brush…

IIRC, they have auto-throttle and heading/course holds, not sure about altitude.

@SupersonicMax - anything you can add?

 

[KevinB]

@SupersonicMax - anything you can add?

his autopilot is on, he can’t respond right now

 

[Quirky]

Might not hear you over the sound of his airpods under that helmet.

 

[dimsum]

Might not hear you over the sound of his airpods under that helmet.

a) That would be awesome.
b) The "set and forget" is pretty much what the airlines do already. Passengers don't generally like being bounced around with their coffee/drinks. Airbus (not sure about Boeing) can do CAT III landings, essentially auto-land, at airports with the right conditions and infrastructure

So, the "boring" transport flight profile is exactly what the airlines want. Airline pilots aren't called "bus drivers" for no reason.

Whether autopilot counts as flying (policies aside) is semantics. Ships can be set on autopilot, but the bridge officers aren't considered just monitoring it. Pilots need to manually change the automation all the time - example, cleared to a different altitude by ATC - so I'd argue that yes, it's still controlling the aircraft.

 

[YZT580]

a) That would be awesome.
b) The "set and forget" is pretty much what the airlines do already. Passengers don't generally like being bounced around with their coffee/drinks. Airbus (not sure about Boeing) can do CAT III landings, essentially auto-land, at airports with the right conditions and infrastructure

So, the "boring" transport flight profile is exactly what the airlines want. Airline pilots aren't called "bus drivers" for no reason.

Whether autopilot counts as flying (policies aside) is semantics. Ships can be set on autopilot, but the bridge officers aren't considered just monitoring it. Pilots need to manually change the automation all the time - example, cleared to a different altitude by ATC - so I'd argue that yes, it's still controlling the aircraft.

The president of American Airlines (I think) once famously stated that the best pilots were those who were physically fit, had excellent reflexes, and were only at best average in mentality. He wanted people who were trainable (programmable) not free thinkers. An example of that being the B727 freighter crew who allegedly did a barrel roll just to see if they could. During WW2 there were numerous instances of young pilots returning with overstressed airframes from exceeding the placarded speed in a dive just so they could see why it was placarded. future aircrew will consist of a pilot to oversee the computers and a Rottweiler to ensure that that is all he does.

 

[Quirky]

You are very optimistic that there will be an aircrew in the future and not just airliners that are pre-programmed to fly the routes. The only thing that's stopping us now is the physiological barrier for passengers to accept that no one is flying the plane. That and those pesky pilot unions.

 

[dimsum]

uture aircrew will consist of a pilot to oversee the computers and a Rottweiler to ensure that that is all he does

So...an Air Combat Systems Officer?

You are very optimistic that there will be an aircrew in the future and not just airliners that are pre-programmed to fly the routes. The only thing that's stopping us now is the physiological barrier for passengers to accept that no one is flying the plane. That and those pesky pilot unions.

The test case will be FedEx and UPS. If that succeeds, then all bets are off.

We're already halfway there with the public perception of automated cars.

 

[FSTO]

So...an Air Combat Systems Officer?


The test case will be FedEx and UPS. If that succeeds, then all bets are off.

We're already halfway there with the public perception of automated cars.

I'll make a bet that autonomous aircraft are a thing before autonomous cars.

'It's a scam': Even after $100 billion, self-driving cars are going nowhere

Six years after companies started offering autonomous rides and almost 20 years after the first self-driving demos, there are few AVs on the road. Why?

www.autoblog.com

 

[dimsum]

I'll make a bet that autonomous aircraft are a thing before autonomous cars.

'It's a scam': Even after $100 billion, self-driving cars are going nowhere

Six years after companies started offering autonomous rides and almost 20 years after the first self-driving demos, there are few AVs on the road. Why?

www.autoblog.com

For cargo? Sure. But I think it would be after autonomous long-haul trucks.

Imagine said autonomous FedEx flight has a collision (ground, or even worse, air) with an airliner? The public outrage alone will stop that entire concept.

 

[FSTO]

For cargo? Sure. But I think it would be after autonomous long-haul trucks.

Imagine said autonomous FedEx flight has a collision (ground, or even worse, air) with an airliner? The public outrage alone will stop that entire concept.

Long haul trucks face even more obstacles than cargo planes. As the article explains, we need dedicated roadways with the minimum amount of outside interaction.

Oh wait, they're called railroads.

 

[Quirky]

Automated this and that, you’ll still need people to fix them. My job will be secure, until they automate maintenance, or just import more cheap labour via Roxham.

 

[OldSolduer]

Automated this and that, you’ll still need people to fix them. My job will be secure, until they automate maintenance, or just import more cheap labour via Roxham.

In which case you need to be prepared to teach them as I bet there are not many skilled technicians.

 

[YZT580]

For cargo? Sure. But I think it would be after autonomous long-haul trucks.

Imagine said autonomous FedEx flight has a collision (ground, or even worse, air) with an airliner? The public outrage alone will stop that entire concept.

won't work until block airspace is extended to the ground and there is no ad hoc flying, no c172s, no Cherokees and no piper colts or homebuilt a/c and that is a lot of political pull to go against. private aircraft owners are in the top 1%. The FedEx experiments have a chance at working because their prime time for flying is at night

 

[SupersonicMax]

IIRC, they have auto-throttle and heading/course holds, not sure about altitude.

We have auto throttles, heading hold, attitude hold, altitude hold, radio altimeter hold and coupled. It cannot capture an altitude but will follow approach guidance.

I use autopilot during CAS a lot (bank attitude hold, altitude hold and auto throttles, during long transits and during the initial phases of an approach. Otherwise, all hand flown. If I spend more attention managing it than I would hand flying, I don’t use it. The goal is to reduce workload, not increase it.

 

[lenaitch]

I'll make a bet that autonomous aircraft are a thing before autonomous cars.

'It's a scam': Even after $100 billion, self-driving cars are going nowhere

Six years after companies started offering autonomous rides and almost 20 years after the first self-driving demos, there are few AVs on the road. Why?

www.autoblog.com

Regardless of mode, the technological hurdles will be at least mirrored by the regulatory ones.

 

[dimsum]

won't work until block airspace is extended to the ground and there is no ad hoc flying, no c172s, no Cherokees and no piper colts or homebuilt a/c and that is a lot of political pull to go against. private aircraft owners are in the top 1%. The FedEx experiments have a chance at working because their prime time for flying is at night

TCAS with pre-set actions?

 

[Quirky]

In which case you need to be prepared to teach them as I bet there are not many skilled technicians.

With our current recruiting and training system incompetence, by the time we start seeing them in the units I’ll be long gone. I want nothing to do with aviation in my second career.

 

[YZT580]

TCAS with pre-set actions?

doesn't work against a homebuilt, nordo aircraft nor is it reliable unless both aircraft are coupled

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Elon Musk gave a frank talk of the challenges of AI driven cars, computers are not big enough and fast enough to deal with all the variables yet.