CMMA - replacing the CP140 Aurora

[Good2Golf]

Musing on an Argus II (even a Yukon II).

Argus II?

Would Airbus allow its product to be marketed as such?

 

[Dale Denton]

Another developmental aircraft that will take decades to IOC?

No thanks.

Reservations are justified, but if done with care, public attention, industry and educational sector input we could develop an industrial niche and value-add to an internationally fielded platform with our most trusted allys, then yes. Invest in a platform, realize the potential to build Canadian industrial speciality and leadership in all things P-8 ASW, ISR, AEW, bomber? Worst case we buy a couple more to experiment on or for training. At least try.

 

[Good2Golf]

I wonder how long it will take the LOR to transition to a notification from DCSA seeking Congressional Approval of an FMS purchase of xx P-8A Poseidons?

 

[dimsum]

Reservations are justified, but if done with care, public attention, industry and educational sector input we could develop an industrial niche and value-add to an internationally fielded platform with our most trusted allys, then yes. Invest in a platform, realize the potential to build Canadian industrial speciality and leadership in all things P-8 ASW, ISR, AEW, bomber? Worst case we buy a couple more to experiment on or for training. At least try.

I'm confused - are you talking about P-8 or the Airbus "Argus II" now?

Because if you're talking about the niche, etc then the best thing the Canadian industry can do is specialize in some systems (whatever they are) and be a supplier to the global P-8 fleet for said systems.

Imagine if the western world used Canadian sonobuoys, or a Canadian acoustic processor.

 

[FSTO]

Musing on an Argus II (even a Yukon II).

Argus II?

Why bring up an article from over 10 years ago?

 

[FSTO]

but if done with care, public attention, industry and educational sector input

We lost that capability in the 60’s.

 

[KevinB]

Why bring up an article from over 10 years ago?

Well that’s considered brand new for most CAF issues

 

[Dale Denton]

I'm confused - are you talking about P-8 or the Airbus "Argus II" now?

Because if you're talking about the niche, etc then the best thing the Canadian industry can do is specialize in some systems (whatever they are) and be a supplier to the global P-8 fleet for said systems.

Imagine if the western world used Canadian sonobuoys, or a Canadian acoustic processor.

Ah, I meant the P-8.

I imagined a new Argus based on the P-8 with parts designed and built in Canada.

We should maximize domestic industry capability in select areas, ASW being one of them. We're not going to be the only ones to fly this for the next 30 years so lets design some new parts ourselves and sell to friends.

 

[dapaterson]

What friends are looking to buy?

Market research suggests we'd build our own orphan fleet, at a cost of billions in R&D, billions more in acquisition, billions more in incremental support and NRE for lifecycle changes...

 

[armrdsoul77]

Why bring up an article from over 10 years ago?

I think it's an interesting page. It's relevant for inclusion on a thread about the CMMA project even if it is 10 years old and the Bombardier CSeries is now an Airbus product and Canada issued a LOR for the P8 just a few days ago (and maybe not even a very practical idea based in reality).It's a sign post along the way.A doodle on the back of a napkin. A daydream or musing...

 

[DBNSG]

Reservations are justified, but if done with care, public attention, industry and educational sector input we could develop an industrial niche and value-add to an internationally fielded platform with our most trusted allys, then yes. Invest in a platform, realize the potential to build Canadian industrial speciality and leadership in all things P-8 ASW, ISR, AEW, bomber? Worst case we buy a couple more to experiment on or for training. At least try.

Can you imagine anyone in this government even investing the time reading your proposal let alone marshalling the time and resources to make it happen? Their industrial strategy is to smother Oil and Gas and believe, really believe in Green. Kinda like Kermit.

 

[dimsum]

Ah, I meant the P-8.

I imagined a new Argus based on the P-8 with parts designed and built in Canada.

We should maximize domestic industry capability in select areas, ASW being one of them. We're not going to be the only ones to fly this for the next 30 years so lets design some new parts ourselves and sell to friends.

So basically what I said - Tier 2 supplier to the P-8 program.

It would be foolish (and probably a non-starter anyways) to compete with the P-8, using a P-8 platform with Canadian parts. Most of our closest friends already have the P-8A - they're not going to switch to the P-8eh.

 

[Underway]

So basically what I said - Tier 2 supplier to the P-8 program.

It would be foolish (and probably a non-starter anyways) to compete with the P-8, using a P-8 platform with Canadian parts. Most of our closest friends already have the P-8A - they're not going to switch to the P-8eh.

Probably a pile of parts in the P-8 already that are Can Con. It's not like the supply chains for airospace aren't integrated to some extent.

 

[dimsum]

Probably a pile of parts in the P-8 already that are Can Con. It's not like the supply chains for airospace aren't integrated to some extent.

Yup. Boeing has a plant in Winnipeg, amongst other places.

Plenty of aviation companies in Canada that probably make stuff for 737s.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

pass

Reservations are justified, but if done with care, public attention, industry and educational sector input we could develop an industrial niche and value-add to an internationally fielded platform with our most trusted allys, then yes. Invest in a platform, realize the potential to build Canadian industrial speciality and leadership in all things P-8 ASW, ISR, AEW, bomber? Worst case we buy a couple more to experiment on or for training. At least try.

Our most trusted allies are flying P-8. Almost your entire post supports what happened and the result-P8.

Spending any money on a Canadian born MPA I will support if the company pays for all their own R and D. Not a penny of tax money.

 

[Good2Golf]

Yup. Boeing has a plant in Winnipeg, amongst other places.

Plenty of aviation companies in Canada that probably make stuff for 737s.

Fairings and some other wing-related composite part. 737, 777, 787. Did a tour there in ASC/ASP. Composites were particularly interesting.

 

[GR66]

Yup. Boeing has a plant in Winnipeg, amongst other places.

Plenty of aviation companies in Canada that probably make stuff for 737s.

From a Boeing news release last summer:

Team Poseidon, consisting of CAE, GE Aviation Canada, IMP Aerospace & Defence, KF Aerospace, Honeywell Aerospace Canada and Raytheon Canada, forms the cornerstone of a Canadian P-8 industrial footprint. The team builds on 81 Canadian suppliers to the platform and to more than 550 Canadian suppliers across all provinces contributing to Boeing's annual CAD $5.3 billion in economic benefit to Canada, supporting more than 20,000 Canadian jobs.

 

[Underway]

CAE are just killing it right now. They seem to be in almost every mil contract that involves some sort of vehicle.

 

[dimsum]

CAE are just killing it right now. They seem to be in almost every mil contract that involves some sort of vehicle.

In the aviation sector specifically, CAE really pushed with the flight sim and training piece.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Probably a pile of parts in the P-8 already that are Can Con. It's not like the supply chains for airospace aren't integrated to some extent.

From a recent CDR article: