CMMA - replacing the CP140 Aurora

[Kirkhill]

For the last time, that is not an MPA. It even specifically says it’s an early warning (AKA AEW&C…maybe without the C) aircraft.

So closer to an E-2 Hawkeye than a P-3 or P-8. Even the letters in the US system are different, denoting different mission sets.

Poland invests in early warning with 2 Swedish planes, eyes aerostats - Breaking Defense

Rumors suggested Poland would purchase Saab’s GlobalEye, but for now Warsaw is buying an older model.

breakingdefense.com

Just to be clear. Bombardier is not in the game. The Poles have bought an all Swedish solution. Sweden's Saab 340 twin engine turbo-prop will be carrying Saab's PS-890 AESA radar array controlled by Saab's Erieye system.

The aircraft are apparently immediately available. Sweden is highly competent. Sweden is just across the water. Sweden shares the same threat and the same threat assessment. And Sweden has been actively co-operating with Ukraine, Poland and JEF to push weapons forwards to help the Ukrainians and to bolster eastern Europeans.

Canada?


The Poles are also looking at persistent low-level coverage by buying tethered aerostats.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I suspect a lot of this applies to Bombardier as well

How Embraer’s CEO Is Playing The Tough Hand He Was Dealt | Aviation Week Network

Francisco Gomes Neto expected to run Embraer without a commercial airline unit, but he is making it work.

aviationweek.com

 

[KevinB]

are the sub hunters not normally based on narrow bodies? Is there a reason for that or is it a historical accident?

I assume part is unit cost, Smaller target etc.

I was just thinking of the loiter time and stores that the wide body A330 could offer.

Also suspect you could get a AWACS setup in it too and while large and costly could do tanker, MPA and AWACS in a one platform setup. Thought the flight patterns for MPA differ from AWACS.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I assume part is unit cost, Smaller target etc.

I was just thinking of the loiter time and stores that the wide body A330 could offer.

Also suspect you could get a AWACS setup in it too and while large and costly could do tanker, MPA and AWACS in a one platform setup. Thought the flight patterns for MPA differ from AWACS.

I suspect you need the width of a widebody to cut decent bomb bay. But I am no aircraft McEngineer…

 

[KevinB]

I suspect you need the width of a widebody to cut decent bomb bay. But I am no aircraft McEngineer…

You could have a plethora of stores in an A330 sized AC.
The P8A isn't a wide body more of a mid body:
Width: 12 ft 4 in (3.76 m); Cabin width: 11 ft 7 in (3.53 m); Cabin height: 86.6 in (2.20 m)

While the A330-220 is 5.64 m (222 in) diameter, 5.26 m (207 in) cabin width (I couldn't find a cabin height - but the cargo capacity under the main "passenger cabin" is Cargo Capacity 132.4 m3 (4,680 cu ft) and 49,400 kg (108,900 lb)

However - looking at the MRTT internal models one would need to alter the center tank to make room for the bay - not being a MPA guy (or any sort of Pilot) while the engineering is possible - I don't know if that sort of capacity or capability would be needed/wanted.

 

[dapaterson]

However - looking at the MRTT internal models one would need to alter the center tank to make room for the bay - not being a MPA guy (or any sort of Pilot) while the engineering is possible - I don't know if that sort of capacity or capability would be needed/wanted.

Re engineering the entire fuel system would be a very non trivial task, likely shift the balance, thus require complete reprogramming of the fly by wire system, possibly even a new type certificate.

 

[Spencer100]

Poland invests in early warning with 2 Swedish planes, eyes aerostats - Breaking Defense

Rumors suggested Poland would purchase Saab’s GlobalEye, but for now Warsaw is buying an older model.

breakingdefense.com

Just to be clear. Bombardier is not in the game. The Poles have bought an all Swedish solution. Sweden's Saab 340 twin engine turbo-prop will be carrying Saab's PS-890 AESA radar array controlled by Saab's Erieye system.

The aircraft are apparently immediately available. Sweden is highly competent. Sweden is just across the water. Sweden shares the same threat and the same threat assessment. And Sweden has been actively co-operating with Ukraine, Poland and JEF to push weapons forwards to help the Ukrainians and to bolster eastern Europeans.

Canada?


The Poles are also looking at persistent low-level coverage by buying tethered aerostats.

The Saab-340 is long out of production.

The Erieye is now called the Globaleye is on a Bombardier Global 6000. It says right in the piece.

 

[Spencer100]

The PR pressure is building.

MSN

 

[Spencer100]

I suspect a lot of this applies to Bombardier as well

How Embraer’s CEO Is Playing The Tough Hand He Was Dealt | Aviation Week Network

Francisco Gomes Neto expected to run Embraer without a commercial airline unit, but he is making it work.

aviationweek.com

Well in the sense that Bombardier has already lost in the commercial game...then yes.

I have a feeling Embraer will look a lot like Bombardier in a couple of years. Biz jets but with a military plane C-390.

 

[KevinB]

The PR pressure is building.

MSN

Yes because their vapor ware 1/20th scale model will fill the role?
What horseshit.

 

[KevinB]

Re engineering the entire fuel system would be a very non trivial task, likely shift the balance, thus require complete reprogramming of the fly by wire system, possibly even a new type certificate.

The center tank shouldn’t be an issue to reroute. The question would be would it even need to be replaced or could a segment be used elsewhere?
Given the fact the plane can fly with or without cargo trimming to account for that means the center tank capacity (which will be used in long flights anyway is already account for in the flight system.

I’m not saying it’s something I could do in SolidWorks in a day, but it’s not monumental from an engineering stand point due to the planes size, and the relatively small area of changes needed- the bay on the P-8 accommodates the Mk54 LTWT torpedo, the Harpoons etc as I understand are on external pylons. So the length and width of the bay are fairly small compared to the overall size of the aircraft (compared to the P-8)

But yes, it would most likely need a new type cert as soon as the fuselage was cut for the internal bay - any aviation personnel go nuts with relatively minor changes (rightly so in most cases) and adding a bay even if not changing the external dimensions would be a large undertaking in that regard.

 

[dapaterson]

If you're reengineering, you'll add significant new capacity and capabilities. Maybe even to the point of replacing part of the B52 fleet with enhanced onboard stores carriage, which will require converting some spaces to fuel, adding further complexity.

But realistically, the USAF will not buy an Airbus platform in any significant numbers, so the investment wouldn't be worthwhile.

 

[Good2Golf]

Re engineering the entire fuel system would be a very non trivial task, likely shift the balance, thus require complete reprogramming of the fly by wire system, possibly even a new type certificate.

Airbus be like:

 

[dapaterson]

Airbus be like:
View attachment 77879

So, channelling their inner Bombardier?

 

[Spencer100]

If you're reengineering, you'll add significant new capacity and capabilities. Maybe even to the point of replacing part of the B52 fleet with enhanced onboard stores carriage, which will require converting some spaces to fuel, adding further complexity.

But realistically, the USAF will not buy an Airbus platform in any significant numbers, so the investment wouldn't be worthwhile.

The Lockheed/Airbus tranker does have a good shot at it. USAF is not super happy with Boeing on this file. Plus Tanker Y program is going to smaller as they wait for better options for the Z program.

So 80/90 units to Lockheed Airbus would send Boeing a message

 

[Kirkhill]

The Saab-340 is long out of production.

The Erieye is now called the Globaleye is on a Bombardier Global 6000. It says right in the piece.

According to the Breaking Defense article the Swedes had a couple of surplus 340s sitting around and immediately available with the engineering already done to mount the Erieye system.

As far as when Poland could get the systems, Sweden currently has two surplus 340s that had been purchased by the United Arab Emirates but were returned after the UAE upgraded to GlobalEyes. According to sources here, should Saab wish to sell those to Warsaw, they could be ready later this year or the next. Saab declined to comment for this report.

 

[MilEME09]

16 birds + kit for $5.9 billion approved by the US

Canada – P-8A Aircraft | Defense Security Cooperation Agency

www.dsca.mil

 

[Good2Golf]

So…we’ve got:
• 10-8, 8-6
• 15-8, 6-6
• 18-8, 2-6(-)
• 18-8, 16-295 (and by association 16-27)
• 18-8, 16-295 (and by association 16-390)
• 10-6(multi-config)
• 20-8

Vegas on a roll!

@suffolkowner, you’re back in the game and leading! Everyone else (except me ) over’d on P-8s or didn’t have P-8 at all.

Looking forward to meeting up with you in Poseidon’s Thunderdome!!!

 

[suffolkowner]

@suffolkowner, you’re back in the game and leading! Everyone else (except me ) over’d on P-8s or didn’t have P-8 at all.

Looking forward to meeting up with you in Poseidon’s Thunderdome!!!

Im still holding out for some Globaleyes!

But its a positive move forward in our glacially slow process

 

[KevinB]

@suffolkowner, you’re back in the game and leading! Everyone else (except me ) over’d on P-8s or didn’t have P-8 at all.

Looking forward to meeting up with you in Poseidon’s Thunderdome!!!

Somewhere I need to find $ for 4 more just to be right