OldSolduer
Army.ca Relic
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Which failed many of its trials but somehow passed......hmmmmm
CMMA - replacing the CP140 Aurora
- Thread starter Eye In The Sky
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Colin Parkinson
Army.ca Myth
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Honestly as much as the Black Hawk is a superior platform to the Griffon - getting 100 Griffons has served us far better than 50 Black Hawks would have
Numbers really are a thing
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The best thing isn’t all that useful if you don’t have enough of them.
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Arguable as they have about the same effective loadout, and you can put more than 8 troops and a toboggan group in a Hakw in the arctic - so your doing better than 2:1 on the Griffon there
100 Griffons isn’t enough, heck 100 Blackhawks wouldn’t be either.
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Protecting Tac Hel PYs, absolutely.
Attrition of airframes also being a thing...
If we had got 50 Black Hawks rather than the 100 Griffons, we'd probably be down to about 35-40 airframes now.
That isn't enough to do everything we ask the TAC Hel world to do, not to mention the Griffons that have had to don SAR colours to reinforce the SAR fleet
Now 100 Black Hawks instead of 100 Griffons is an easy winner, no contest. We all know this.
But if we had gone ahead with only 50 Black Hawks, we would have had to run a few competitions over the years to either acquire more as attrition took it's toll or purchase yet more orphan fleets to do the things we would have wanted the BH to do but couldn't due to too few aircraft.
Just like we couldn't fulfill our SAR mandate if we had only bought 7 "Super Cormorants", we wouldn't have been able to fulfill the TAC Hel requirements with only 50 "Super Griffons, aka Black Hawks"
Just to be clear, I am NOT in any way advocating that the Griffon was the better choice in terms of airframe! A proper military helicopter would have been far better.
If we had got 50 Black Hawks rather than the 100 Griffons, we'd probably be down to about 35-40 airframes now.
That isn't enough to do everything we ask the TAC Hel world to do, not to mention the Griffons that have had to don SAR colours to reinforce the SAR fleet
Now 100 Black Hawks instead of 100 Griffons is an easy winner, no contest. We all know this.
But if we had gone ahead with only 50 Black Hawks, we would have had to run a few competitions over the years to either acquire more as attrition took it's toll or purchase yet more orphan fleets to do the things we would have wanted the BH to do but couldn't due to too few aircraft.
Just like we couldn't fulfill our SAR mandate if we had only bought 7 "Super Cormorants", we wouldn't have been able to fulfill the TAC Hel requirements with only 50 "Super Griffons, aka Black Hawks"
Just to be clear, I am NOT in any way advocating that the Griffon was the better choice in terms of airframe! A proper military helicopter would have been far better.
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Some folks were pushing for a Canadian-based assembly of UH-60s, and more than 50, but 100 Griffons was $0.950B, so conveniently stayed below the $1B public outrage level, and kept Canadian aerospace modestly sated.
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Blackhawks built in Canada would have been amazing.
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I think you mean "technically deficient with huge airworthiness issues after being assembled by a company without aerospace experience and a workforce hired for political reasons without the necessary competencies", not "amazing".
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I was thinking more like Sik building a Canadian plant.
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Ummm...that would have been IMP in Halifax. They were Sikorsky’s rep, in those days.
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So you're saying if we'd ordered them in the 1990s we'd be about 5 years away from delivery of the first one?
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Not precisely.
I am saying that build quality and price might not have been to our liking.
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Aerospace experience they have.
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But never to the detriment of political engagement, unfortunately.
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