Coast Guard College

[TR23]

What is the reputation of the education and training provided at the Coast Guard College?

Is it possible to transfer to the Navy after finishing Coast Guard College?  The agreement state that you will serve 4 as an Officer in the public service, not necessarily within the Coast Guard.  Is the military classified as a Public Service?

Does anyone have any knowledge or experience of someone doing something like this?  RMC holds some interest to me, but the Coast Guard College seems to offer some really awesome programs.  Of note, they only offer two programs.....Engineering stream and Navigation.  You spend a great deal of time at sea during the program.

Thanks for any information,
Trevor

 

[NavalGent]

I think that the four year program at the CCG college would be pretty thorough, producing quite good coast guard officers. I don't think that this would be equivalent to naval officership. You asked if the military is classified as a public service, but I think the important question is whether the coast guard is military, and the answer is definitely not. The coast guard is under fisheries and oceans, whereas the navy/CF is under national defence. They are two different organizations that have different roles, priorities, presumably different procedures and different training even though there is a lot of commonality.

If you do choose to go to the CCG College, you would certainly be able to join the CF after you finish your obligatory service in the coast guard, and your experience would be a definite asset. But even then, you'd still need to meet all the requirements to join (a univ. degree, or go through RMC or CiviU to get one), and would have to undergo all the military training to get you qualified as a naval officer, including the stuff you would already know.

 

[Neill McKay]

I agree that they're very different jobs and very different training requirements.  Coasties are essentially civil servants, and are subject to the usual civil service policies of government.  I think anyone who joined the Canadian Coast Guard thinking it was a military environment would be disapointed (important note here: the CCG is different from the US Coast Guard, which is in effect a military service).

Coast Guard College graduates do get a degree out of it now (a Bachelor of Technology from Cape Breton University), so presumably direct entry into the navy would be a possibility after the four years of post-College service.  I expect they'd still require you to do all of the MARS training, but you could probably sleep through much of MARS 3!

 

[TR23]

Interesting.  Thanks guys.  I do realize that CCG is not a police or military force and that it had no constabulary role.  However, they do seem to produce good sailors from what I've read.  I thought that perhaps you could transfer quite shortly after graduation, and get trained as a MARS, and serve your fours years required service in that way.  I know that the two are far different agencies, but I thought I should ask, just in case someone had done it.  I can see serving 4 years in the Coast Guard,  but not a whole career.  The navy has many options for long term careers though, and I thought transferring would be a good option if it was available.

 

[RecDiver]

I think you would be doing a big disservice to CG if you try to use the CGC as a stepping stone. There are many (repeat many) good applicants trying to get in to the CG collage and develop their carear in it. Why don't you just go to any relevant university get a relevant degree and then try to join the Navy? That you would not be taking up a space from people who really 'understand' what CG is all about want to be part of it...

Respectfully submitted for consideration...

PS: It is not my field at all, BUT, I am thinking aloud... IF I was a recruiter, I would ask you why you left the CG right after your mandatory service and now wanting to join Navy?? And that would tell me a whole lot aboutyou...

 

[TR23]

Very good points ReDiver.  I appreciate your viewpoint on them, and I think a recruiter would feel similarly.  I guess I was just throwing a half-baked idea out there for consideration, and I appreciate the flaws of it being pointed out.


Can anyone recommend a civi university with a good Navigation/Nautical Science/anything similar program?  I believe the East Coast has some, and I will search.  I also heard that Maine has an excellent maritime university.  Perhaps one of these would be a better plan.

 

[Neill McKay]

I can see serving 4 years in the Coast Guard,   but not a whole career.

I'm curious as to what makes you say that?  (I'm considering the CG myself right now.)

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Quote from: TR23 on Today at 19:13:46
I can see serving 4 years in the Coast Guard,  but not a whole career.


I'm curious as to what makes you say that?  (I'm considering the CG myself right now.)

I am wondering as well. I have friends and neighbours who are in the CCG and they all but sing the praises to the Coast Cuard. They really  enjoy what they do.

 

[TR23]

Ok, that deserves clarification.  I'm really digging myself into a hole here, and I feel like an ass.  I completely respect the Coast Guard.  It is world class.  SAR operations in the harshest conditions, and they do them awesomely.  I've both heard and read stories about the rescues and aide that they have given, and it's incredible.  They also perform many other tasks like icebreaking and aid-to-navigation.  I got to tour a Coast Guard buoy tender once, and it was a really cool ship.

However, personally I would like to particpate in operations that protect Canada.  I wish the CG had a constabulary role, I would join in a second.  Protect our resources, and our economy-I'de like that, I'm not talking John Wayne, just the knowing that I helped arrest some bad guys/drug/gun/people smugglers  I also would like to travel, see more of the world.  The navy gives me more options to do that.  The navy also actively protects Canadian interests, both at home and abroad.  Performing SAR with the CG would be an awesome task, worthy of any sailor I think.  But I imagine that a CPF or any other Navy vessel was around, that they would help out too, so in the Navy I would be able to partake in SAR as well.

The Canadian Govt seems unwilling to consider giving the CG law enforcement powers, otherwise I would join now, and hope that role came along.  The Coast Guard and Fisheries fleet are both also rusting out, with little money being set aside for replacement(or so I've read).  Thats not the CG fault,  but it makes me wonder about a career there.

 

[TR23]

I also don't know how manning works in the Coast Guard....I don't know if I'de like to do 6 or 7 month deployment on an Icebreaker in the far north.  Yes, I know the navy does things like that too(but prolly not that far north?), but the navy seems to have better facilities for crew recreation/contact with home.  Theres also rotations ashore too, I'm not sure if the Coast Guard has those, although I assume they must have some.  All those things factor into famliy life, and this any decision for a long term career.  I'm not trying to bash the CG, I'm just trying to explain what my reasons were for saying what I did.


I would be very interested in someone explaing the pro's of the CG....but I have a harder time finding that information then stuff on the Navy.  So how about it?  Anyone gonna give a plug for the CG?

 

[George Wallace]

Really now!....You're on an Army Site....Have you Googled the Canadian Coast Guard at all to see if there were any sites or Blogs on the CCG?

 

[TR23]

Yes, I have found many official documents that way, and a few unoffical sites.  There are many "histories of" and encyclopedia articles.  Few sites that have the flavour this one does.  And I posted in the Navy section because I thought some of the Navy guys might either have some knowledge or experience with the CG(certainly more then me), or some CG might frequent here.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

The CCGs official website:

http://www.ccg-gcc.gc.ca/

 

[TR23]

Yes, I have visited the official site.  I have also visited the DFO site.  And the site that that the gov't posts job openings on.  All are very offical, very dry.  Like trying to make a decision about joining the army based on just the official gov't sites.  A larger perspective is useful.

 

[Neill McKay]

The Coast Guard and Fisheries fleet are both also rusting out, with little money being set aside for replacement(or so I've read).

A small point of clarification: they're one fleet now (to the disgust of people from both fleets when it happened, I understand).

 

[Island Ryhno]

Can anyone recommend a civi university with a good Navigation/Nautical Science/anything similar program?  

Marine Institute here in St.John's Newfoundland, the best of it's kind. www.mi.mun.ca. Good luck!

 

[Neill McKay]

I also don't know how manning works in the Coast Guard....I don't know if I'de like to do 6 or 7 month deployment on an Icebreaker in the far north.

Typically the big ships operate on a lay day manning system, which means the crew work 28 days on and 28 days off (some ships use a 14-day cycle).

Yes, I know the navy does things like that too(but prolly not that far north?), but the navy seems to have better facilities for crew recreation/contact with home.

I've had the opposite impression: any CG ships I've been aboard have seemed absolutely palatial compared to naval ships.   Carpeted decks, no more than two to a cabin, lots of room (understandable when you consider that the biggest ship in the CG has a crew of under 50, compared to well over 200 in a CPF or 280).

On the communications issue, the big ships do have e-mail for the crew, and remember that you're usually near the coast so cell phone coverage is pretty good most of the time.

Theres also rotations ashore too, I'm not sure if the Coast Guard has those, although I assume they must have some.   All those things factor into famliy life, and this any decision for a long term career.

Only if you want them.   In the Coast Guard you can stay in the fleet as long as you're interested and able.   But ship's officers do sometimes take shore jobs; they can compete for them just as anyone else can.

Actually, the family implications of having every other month off stike me as being very attractive.   (Understood that it might be different if you had kids, since your spouse would be a single parent 50% of the time.)

I'm not trying to bash the CG, I'm just trying to explain what my reasons were for saying what I did.

No sweat -- I haven't had the impression that you were bashing anyone.

I would be very interested in someone explaing the pro's of the CG....but I have a harder time finding that information then stuff on the Navy.   So how about it?   Anyone gonna give a plug for the CG?

It is a lot harder to come by information on the CG, isn't it?   The Forces have a large (but perhaps not large enough) recruiting apparatus, while the CG doesn't.

 

[TR23]

Thanks for info guys, I'de looked at the Marine Institute, and it's nice to hear that it's highly regarded.
Wow, that layday crewing system sounds great....sems like you would get a lot more time off in the Coast Guard.  Merchant ships often use a lay day system too right?  Also, having nice facilities and ships does make the CG very attractive.

I've read in several places that the CG prefers to hire sailors with some experience, unlike the Navy who will train you from the ground up.  Does anyone have any thoughts on that?  They also seem to hire regionally, whereas the Navy hires nationally and moves you where they need you.

How does promotion in the Coast Guard work?  Is more like the civilian side of the world, or is it quite regimented like in the Navy?

Thanks for any insight.
TR23

 

[Neill McKay]

I've read in several places that the CG prefers to hire sailors with some experience, unlike the Navy who will train you from the ground up.   Does anyone have any thoughts on that?   They also seem to hire regionally, whereas the Navy hires nationally and moves you where they need you.

How does promotion in the Coast Guard work?   Is more like the civilian side of the world, or is it quite regimented like in the Navy?

They'll take officer cadets into the College without any experience, but they do prefer (perhaps require) experience when hiring crew.  Crew are hired through the usual civil service channels.  Officers and crew belong to their respective regions, as I understand it.

Promotion is by applying for (and getting) better jobs, just as it is elsewhere in the civil service.  Ambitious people can study and take the examinations for higher marine certificates and seek more responsible jobs.

 

[Gus]

I had the opportunity to visit the Coast Guard College a couple of years ago, in my capacity as an instructor with the Navy.

Most folks' postings have it right: the CG College will train a person up from zero to qualified watchkeeping mate.  The program is just over four years, it is a combination of academic and practical training, and at the end the person is Transport Canada certified for ship watchkeeping and has a baccalaureate.

The DND and DFO/Transport Canada have a memorandum of understanding about Naval qualification equivalences, so it is actually easier to go from the Navy to the civvie world in some respects.  I know from my instructor time that very little of a civilian watchkeeping certification is endorsed with the Navy.  Many people have joined only to find out that the 54 weeks of Naval training is reduced only by a couple of weeks.  Some of it is justified, the Navy has very particular way of doing business because of its armed missions.

Speaking to the CG College staff and students, it is a good programme.  They also echo the feeling that was brought out in a post earlier that the Coast Guard / DFO merger was a HUGE culture class with a great deal of resentment on both sides.  A fellow I know in the CG says that while the CG is still part of DFO, it is run like a distinct division so all of the budget "stealing" and so forth has stopped.  Ah, big government.

Anyway, my 2 cents is that you'd have to look at what you want out of the maritime career.  I think the CG has a great deal to offer, but that's the kind of contribution you would have to want.  The Navy has just as many problems as any other government department.  Perhaps in one way it is like asking yourself: do you want to be a pilot for Air Canada or for the Air Force; one isn't necessarily better than the other, they're just different.