Combatives for infantry?

[Dogboy]

from my understanding
2 people in a knife fight,= 2 cut up people
you can (most of the time ) walk away from a gun fight without a scratch
and some formes of unarmed combat may be a good thing in the new CF with all our peace keeping
you never know when being able to take a guy down without killing them may be usefully

 

[Matt_Fisher]

Not really any help...

If you join the reg force infantry you get a small segement of basic training with close quarter combat.

The fact that you will be wearing body armour, helmet etc. make martial arts in combat highly unrealistic.

We also try to shoot people rather than get near them if possible.

I'll take a gun to a fistfight anyday, but with ROEs the way they are you'd better be prepared to be able to use those fists and win...

There are some good applications for a martial arts programs as it relates to unarmed restraints and counters to grabs (of your person and/or rifle) that one may encounter while conducting one's business.  

Think of it as having another tool in your toolkit that you can use in addition to your weapon.

For example, you're in Afghanistan and are faced with a large crowd of protestors.   A member of the crowd grabs your rifle and attempts to wrestle it out of your hands...A properly taught martial arts program will instill the skills and confidence necessary for you to act and win in that situation without having to resort to deadly force.   The martial arts trained soldier will counter the protestors grab on his rifle and remove the threat to himself and give the protestor with his sprained/broken wrist from the counter-hold and severely bruised/cracked jaw/skull from the following buttstroke a lesson he won't soon forget about what happens when he tries to steal Cpl. Pieman's rifle.   And it's never a good thing when the opening story on The National is "Canadian troops opened fire into an unarmed crowd in Kabul today..."   and the ensuing video footage is of YOU...

Not to say that it's always wrong to resort to deadly force, but there are plenty of situations that you can resolve without such escalation that makes life much more difficult in the long-run.

I don't know what the current unarmed combatives training scheme in the Canadian Forces is like, but perhaps it may be a good idea to send some fist-fighting keeners down here to Quantico to do our McMap (Marine Corps Martial Arts Program) Instructors Courses and pass the knowledge on through a LFC-wide combatives skills program.

 

[winchable]

I'm only familiar with Brazilian Ju Jitsu, please elaborate more on this Japanese style??

The Japanese style is a little more rigid in it's application, and is primarily (though not entirely) designed to keep you on your feet and over your opponent. It more closely resembles Judo, this is largely as a result of Judo being based on JiuJiitsu (So is Karate, Aikido, Hapkido, BJJ)

I would prefer to stay on my feet in any fight, Brazilian JiuJitsu practitioners almost always resort to ground tactics and generally seem more at home on the ground.
That's not to say that BJJ fighters dont have standing moves and JJJ Fighters don't know how to fight on the ground, I just prefer the more rigid discipline and standing fighting style you'll encounter at a Japanese Jiu Jitsu school.

 

[Crazy_Eyes]

Ghost, I originally started with Tae Kwon Do. But when I reached the black Belt level my instructor decided to start to incorporate a lot more techniques to make us better all around fighters. The name given to it was Tae Ki Do..not sure of the spelling. I guess it's more of an emerging style then a common system, all I know is that it's effective. If you want to know more please PM me and i'll gladly go on, but for now i'll stop

 

[Fusaki]

I would prefer to stay on my feet in any fight, Brazilian JiuJitsu practitioners almost always resort to ground tactics and generally seem more at home on the ground.

Ahh, the old stand-up vs groundfighting debate!!

Some will say "Its always better to finish a guy standing up", while others will say "90% of fights end up on the ground, so you'd might as well focus your training there." I try and think along the lines of "90% of fights end up on the ground, but 99% start standing up. Meaning? You'd damn well better be able to do both!!!"

Right now I'm doing an art called Fudushin Bujutsu. Its primarily based on Ninjutsu, with a focus on Taijutsu (stand up unarmed combat), Koppojutsu (pressure points and bone breaking), and Jiujutsu (groundfighting and takedowns). It also draws influence from Muay Thai, American Kickboxing, Aikido, Tae Kwon Do, and Military Unarmed Combat.

I'm also doing another style of martial arts, that doesn't really have a name. I guess the best way to describe it would be self defence training, and training for mixed martial arts (UFC style) tournaments. We're learning JiuJutsu, Kickboxing (Muay Thai, Savate, American), wrestling, and Military Unarmed Combat, among others. At first I was skeptical, but now I think that the fact that this training doesn't limit itself to any specific style is a major bonus on the street. Its just a mix of what works in the street and in the ring.

Both these clubs are withing walking distance of any living in pers at CFB Petawawa, so PM me if you're interested and I can give you times or even introduce you to the instructors. The members come from all units around the base, plus civvies so you might just run into someone you know.

 

[winchable]

that doesn't really have a name.

Jeet Kune Do, the formless art.

It's probably not that (90% of the time, if someone tells you they're "learning" jeet kune do, they're grossly misinformed, or stupid.)

I do prefer to stay on my feet.
When fighting I figure, why aim for groundfighting (Even if the percentages work against you)  when you can aim for standing. Aim high I suppose, It's just my personal motto, or whatever you call it.

The best idea with Martial Arts is to try free courses until you find one that suits your size and ability.

 

[Joe_McSweeney]

http://www.russianmartialart.com/

spetznatz... I hope I spelled that right... the theory behind it is simple... rabbits don't fight like bears, wolves don't fight like cranes.... why should humans???  Pretty interesting stuff.

Joe.

 

[Freddie]

Ghost778 -

In Search Of The Warrior Spirit: Teaching Awareness Techniques To Green Berets
Richard Strozzi Heckler (or Heckler Strozzi)

You'll love the book!

 

[HollywoodHitman]

The style Combat_Medic is talking about is called DEFENDO. It was developed by a former Canadian soldier named Bill Wolfe. It is well thought out and effective for the kinds of operations Cdn soldiers will be employed on. The Seaforth instructors are excellent and the training is available commercially. When supported by a good RSM and Trg cell, there are few limits to being imaginitive and developing good training for your troops. I have no experience with this form of unarmed combat, but when I have the chance I will be jumping on the bandwagon.

Overall as far as conventional martial arts are concerned, I would be more inclined to learn to use the tools you will have with you on the battlefield. Bayonet, Rifle, E-Tool, Hands, Boots, Helmet. Do the math. Maximum speed, maximum violence. You get that close to the enemy on the ground during a battle, it's going to be some down and dirty fighting, using what you have at that second, and you don't have to make it pretty to stop his pulse. At the end of the day, even with crowd control operations commanders will remove their troops before the situation escalates to gunfire. ROE's are usually pretty well thought out these days........Just remember to ask alot of questions if you don't understand. :dontpanic:

There are some pretty good accounts of close quarters combat from many of the previous wars. 

 

[combat_medic]

HollywoodHitman: Careful not to ask the dumb questions though; "Warrant, why does that pressure point hurt?"... I certainly found out why in a big f*cking hurry! 

 

[I_am_John_Galt]

The style Combat_Medic is talking about is called DEFENDO. It was developed by a former Canadian soldier named Bill Wolfe. It is well thought out and effective for the kinds of operations Cdn soldiers will be employed on.

Would this be anything like Krav Maga?  I was asking my TKD instructor about it and he seemed to thiink that it (Krav Maga) was probably pretty effective, but over-commercialized ...

 

[HollywoodHitman]

I'd have to be honest and say I can't tell you much about the style. If I could suggest that maybe you look up DEFENDO or Bill Wolfe on the internet, you might find some more information. It's something I'll look into taking when I get back and resettled, but everyone I have spoken to who has been exposed to this style swears by it's effectiveness. As for a comparison, I'm not qualified to do that. I think every style has it's own strengths and limitations, so no matter how commercial something becomes, it doesnt neccessarily mean it's effectiveness decreases...........

HH