Coming Changes to Infantry NCM Career Courses

[DirtyDog]

I found an interesting PowerPoint today.  Maybe this is on here somewhere.... I couldn't find any other topics on it, but admitedly, my search wasn't exhaustive.  Maybe there would be something in the link within the Ex Bayonet thread, but a membership is needed.

Anyway, it outlines the (very near) future of Infantry NCM career and leadership courses.

The basics:

9mm/60mm mortars going from IPSWQ to DP1

AGLS and .50 to IPSWQ

"Small arms" (DP3A) in general will no longer be your "Sgt" course and will instead be a MCpl course (DP2C)

DP3A will instead encompass things like Control Indirect Fire, Unique and trasistional operations, Offensive Operations, Defensive Operations and Patrolling

Looks like no coffee course to become a Sgt for me.

 

[dangerboy]

There is a presentation on Documentum, outlining the relocation.  Here is the link http://webtop.gagetown.mil.ca:8080/anonymous-en/component/drl?objectId=0c0004bc800019b1&ReLoad=1132423236316.  The link is only available on the DIN and the powerpoint is labeled 13052011_Infantry Training Brief_Aitchison.PPT

 

[daftandbarmy]

I found an interesting PowerPoint today.  Maybe this is on here somewhere.... I couldn't find any other topics on it, but admitedly, my search wasn't exhaustive.  Maybe there would be something in the link within the Ex Bayonet thread, but a membership is needed.

Anyway, it outlines the (very near) future of Infantry NCM career and leadership courses.

The basics:

9mm/60mm mortars going from IPSWQ to DP1

AGLS and .50 to IPSWQ

"Small arms" (DP3A) in general will no longer be your "Sgt" course and will instead be a MCpl course (DP2C)

DP3A will instead encompass things like Control Indirect Fire, Unique and trasistional operations, Offensive Operations, Defensive Operations and Patrolling

Looks like no coffee course to become a Sgt for me.

Good to see that they're still using the 60mm MOR. I thought we were getting rid of it? (woe is us).

 

[HItorMiss]

And this takes effect starting when?

 

[Michael OLeary]

If I recall correctly, the PPT has a slide that shows the transition period for each course.

From what I think I remember of it, over the next 4-5 years(?) for all the NCM courses to transition to the new system.

 

[Lowlander]

I saw the same power point, in the new system is it Mods 1-5, plus advanced small arms for MCpl, then Mod 6 for Sgt?

 

[DirtyDog]

I saw the same power point, in the new system is it Mods 1-5, plus advanced small arms for MCpl, then Mod 6 for Sgt?

Nope.  IPSWQ, Mods 1 -6, then small arms.  The new DP3A looks like an enhanced, or advanced, PLQ Mod 6.

 

[DirtyDog]

There is a presentation on Documentum, outlining the relocation.  Here is the link http://webtop.gagetown.mil.ca:8080/anonymous-en/component/drl?objectId=0c0004bc800019b1&ReLoad=1132423236316.  The link is only available on the DIN and the powerpoint is labeled 13052011_Infantry Training Brief_Aitchison.PPT

Yes, that is the Powerpoint I'm speaking of.

If I recall correctly, the PPT has a slide that shows the transition period for each course.

From what I think I remember of it, over the next 4-5 years(?) for all the NCM courses to transition to the new system.

Actually, it mostly takes effect this fall.

I attached the PP converted to PDF but due to the way it presents, the main table that shows the changes doesn't display properly, so I included a snapshot of that table

 

[s23256]

Nope.  IPSWQ, Mods 1 -6, then small arms.  The new DP3A looks like an enhanced, or advanced, PLQ Mod 6.

I'm not a NCM DP realignment wizard but I did stay at a Holiday in express last night.  Well not really but I did build the slide in question.

Think machine gunner + C16 familiarization crse [DP 2A, pte-cpl] followed by  PLQ 1-6 (culminating in a basic understanding of section level tactics in a pl context) [DP2B, senior cpl] followed by small arms instructor + field firing ARSO + conventional RSO [DP 2C, MCpl] followed by comprehensive section level tactics in a pl context [DP 3A, senior MCpl].

Or something along those lines.

 

[Troopasaurus]

So what happens to those of us who are sitting with Mods 1-5 and just in need of mod 6... do we restart the process? or do we slide into small arms or another mod?

 

[DirtyDog]

I'm not a NCM DP realignment wizard but I did stay at a Holiday in express last night.  Well not really but I did build the slide in question.

Think machine gunner + C16 familiarization crse [DP 2A, pte-cpl] followed by  PLQ 1-6 (culminating in a basic understanding of section level tactics in a pl context) [DP2B, senior cpl] followed by small arms instructor + field firing ARSO + conventional RSO [DP 2C, MCpl] followed by comprehensive section level tactics in a pl context [DP 3A, senior MCpl].

Or something along those lines.

Seen.  That was my basic understanding of it.

But....

Exactly at what point will a soldier be eligible to be appointed a MCpl?  After completion of all PLQ mods or after small arms?

Will current junior Sgts be course loaded for this new DP3A?

 

[DirtyDog]

So what happens to those of us who are sitting with Mods 1-5 and just in need of mod 6... do we restart the process? or do we slide into small arms or another mod?

I would assume you just will continue and do the PLQ Mod 6 followed by the DP2C.

 

[Tow Tripod]

And again the wheel shall be re-invented. Retirement is so close or not!

 

[s23256]

So what happens to those of us who are sitting with Mods 1-5 and just in need of mod 6... do we restart the process? or do we slide into small arms or another mod?

No promises but based on my (admittedly limited) understanding you will roll into Mod 6 and then it depends on timelines.

COA 1

Get Mod 6 done soon and you may fall under the current system and move on to DP3A small arms [Sgt qual] and then DP 3B [WO qual]

COA 2

Get Mod 6 done later on and fall under the new system moving on to DP 2C Small Arms, then DP 3A section battle crse [Sgt qual] then DP 3B

Caveat:  The above is based on somewhat limited involvement in the project and somewhat extensive drinking...

 

[s23256]

Seen.  That was my basic understanding of it.

But....

Exactly at what point will a soldier be eligible to be appointed a MCpl?  After completion of all PLQ mods or after small arms?

Will current junior Sgts be course loaded for this new DP3A?

See caveats above.

MCpl after Mod 6 and time in rank

No, qualification is grandfathered.

 

[DirtyDog]

No promises but based on my (admittedly limited) understanding you will roll into Mod 6 and then it depends on timelines.

COA 1

Get Mod 6 done soon and you may fall under the current system and move on to DP3A small arms [Sgt qual] and then DP 3B [WO qual]

COA 2

Get Mod 6 done later on and fall under the new system moving on to DP 2C Small Arms, then DP 3A section battle crse [Sgt qual] then DP 3B

Caveat:  The above is based on somewhat limited involvement in the project and somewhat extensive drinking...

Hmmm...

Well looking at the timeline chart it would seem someone with Mods 1-5 to right now will definitely fall under the new system.  I've had PLQ for over 2 years and wasn't expecting a DP3A until atleast next spring (or later considering the bottle neck of MCpls now) so I really don't expect myself to progess to Sgt under the old system... unfortunately.

 

[DirtyDog]

See caveats above.

MCpl after Mod 6 and time in rank

No, qualification is grandfathered.

Ack.

The reason I ask about junior Sgts being course loaded on the "new" DP 3A is that it is essentially a new qualification that didn't really exist under the old system so that Sgts coming in after them will have not only  small arms, but this enhanced section level command course.

 

[s23256]

Ack.

The reason I ask about junior Sgts being course loaded on the "new" DP 3A is that it is essentially a new qualification that didn't really exist under the old system so that Sgts coming in after them will have not only  small arms, but this enhanced section level command course.

No doubt there will be a disconnect between course content but this is just part of the growing pains of a relatively radical shift in the trg concept.

In fact, this is probably a pretty good time for this as we have a large population of combat vetted MCpls where the trg/experience delta between an "old system" DP3A qualified Sgt with a cbt tour as a sect 2IC and a "new system" qualified Sgt without the deployed leadership experience but with a more comprehensive tactics crse is about as close as we can realistically make it.

 

[Haligonian]

I was at Bayonet and from my recollection of LCol Aitchison's presentation (Spinaker can correct me on this as he might be closer to the issue) the new DP 3A was to better prepare out Sgts for leading larger and more complex organizations. Sect plus and platoon minus type groupings with enablers. Something along the lines of what sect comd's do in Afghanistan with ANA attached and UAV buzzing overhead. This is not to say that they will lead organizations like this on the course, but the course will attempt to give them the training and tactical acumen to do so.

 

[BDTyre]

Unfortunately, when they eliminated the weekend Mods 1 -5 and went to this DL/Residence and then Mod 6 format, they made it quite a bit more difficult for reservists who work full time to progress into a leadership role. The addition of a third course as a requirement doesn't help matters.