Comm Res No More?

[2929]

Your profile says Vancouver so I'm guessing you are with 744 Regt? Being in the same chain will mean attending O Gps and conferences and such so that so remind the Militia that you exist and raise your profile.

But I have to wonder why a unit that is in the same city as so many Militia units and a Bde HQ seems to have such little contact with them now? 1 or 2 sp ex's in a year with all those units around? That's unbelievable. 746 would get that a month during the trg year back when I was in.

I honestly have no idea why it is the way it is but, besides the annual Bde level ex, we rarely support other unit exercises. It is unfortunate because I find that to be the most effective trg. I'm hoping that being a Bde asset instead of a separate entity will change this.

 

[Donut]

WRT the HS Res going back to the Army Res, the RumInt word I've gotten is that the Army, when asking for the Comms back, were asked if they'd like us back, too.  The word I've got is they politely declined. 

I suppose we we can be a bit demanding at times.    ;D

DF

 

[Staff Weenie]

ParaMedTech - I'm wounded by the thought - okay, we are damned demanding......

For Comm Res - I've got to say, as an OC and Ops O on various CAC, Trillium Phoenix, VG exercises etc, I've never received anything but the highest level of support from the Comms folks! I've got a wealth of stories of Signallers going the extra mile to set up our CP, and teach us HS folks how to work the kit. I can think of a few No Duff cases that might have been lost if it wasn't for the Sigs folks helping out in the CP.

Do Res units not under LFC get isolated - darn right - but I think both sides can share some in the 'blame' for not ensuring that they talk.

That said, if I had to pick a side, from our own experience in the Fd Ambs, I'd say that the Res CBGs typically neglect CS and CSS until the very last minute, and then they can't figure out why their plan doesn't work. A well rounded G3 and Bde is going to ensure that the CS and CSS units are fully integrated into the plan - because they know that everything falls apart quickly without it.

 

[Sig_Des]

There are three elements: Sea, Land and Air.  Comm Res is Land Element.  They are, however, a seperate sub-component of the Primary Reserve.

Absolutely correct DP. Brainfart on my part, got the 2 mixed up

 

[chrisf]

This is somewhat what I was trying to get at in my original post. In my experience (BC Comms Unit) we've rarely been involved with anything but ourselves, maybe 1 or 2 support ex's in a trg year. As to the factors that caused this I have no idea, I'm just a lowly Signalman w/ a rudimentary grasp of army politics.

A thought for you, don't think about how many exs you do where you support the other units in their training, but think about how many exs they actually DO that would require comms support... I know locally, most of our militia units can only manage to do 2 or 3 actual exercises large enough to require our support every training year.

As far as your own unit in particular goes, there's probably a reason why you haven't been doing much support of local militia units, and instead, I'm guessing you've been doing a lot of aide to civil power...

 

[Sig_Des]

As far as your own unit in particular goes, there's probably a reason why you haven't been doing much support of local militia units, and instead, I'm guessing you've been doing a lot of aide to civil power...

From what I remember of people if vic, a lot more aide to civil power, and due to the landscape, a lot more HF/NCCIS, vs VHF Tac Comms

 

[211RadOp]

A thought for you, don't think about how many exs you do where you support the other units in their training, but think about how many exs they actually DO that would require comms support... I know locally, most of our militia units can only manage to do 2 or 3 actual exercises large enough to require our support every training year.

Things have changed since I was an R031 back in the mid-80s. Even then, generally, we only held exercises at the Coy level. For a reserve unit, this was actually an overstrength Pl. At that level, we did our own comms, mind you with 77 sets in the sections and 524s in the trucks, it wasn't rocket science. About twice a year, the Bn would have a full EX, but again, a Res Bn was only about the size of an overstrength Coy. I never saw a Comm Res on EX with us for the four and 1/2 years I was with the militia, even on the summer concentrations.

Many years later, in '92 I was posted to LFAA HQ with the G6. They had this thing called ARCON were all the res units would get together for the concentration. It was the first time I had seen a Res BG, with all the Res units from Atlantic Area together.

 

[ettibebs]

Just a little bit of info I had yesterday from CO.
The comms Res is going to be transfer as a whole to the land force and we wont have budget cut until the land force learn a bit more about us.  So there wont be immediate structural change.  The plan is to integrate us in the bde gradually in the next 2 years.  After that the budget and number of training day a year per head will be adjust the way the land force see it.

Could be good or bad.  My great fear is to see our number of training day cut to the level of the milicia(45 vs 80).  On the other side, i hope it does improve the level of knowledge of the bde officer about what we can do for them.  I went to Mississippi in january and on the comm side the planification was awful.  Some of the officers there didnt even know what a RRB is and used cell phone instead. Until we told them that a RRB could be made just out of to 522.

 

[2929]

A thought for you, don't think about how many exs you do where you support the other units in their training, but think about how many exs they actually DO that would require comms support... I know locally, most of our militia units can only manage to do 2 or 3 actual exercises large enough to require our support every training year.

Excellent point.

As far as your own unit in particular goes, there's probably a reason why you haven't been doing much support of local militia units, and instead, I'm guessing you've been doing a lot of aide to civil power...

That is in fact what we have been focusing on recently. But, even w/ DOMOPS we still should be doing more then going R/C // L/C over and over again on ex. The only time we seem to do that is when we support other units.

From what I remember of people if vic, a lot more aide to civil power, and due to the landscape, a lot more HF/NCCIS, vs VHF Tac Comms

We are very different from Victoria, they focus on TTCC (I believe) while Nanaimo does mostly HF/NCCIS. Besides our LCT and BASERAD Dets, we exclusively do VHF Tac Comms.

 

[chrisf]

That is in fact what we have been focusing on recently. But, even w/ DOMOPS we still should be doing more then going R/C // L/C over and over again on ex. The only time we seem to do that is when we support other units.

Actually, you're still way off. Just because you're passing traffic doesn't mean you're getting valid training. You know the VP, move on. Beyond that, just because you're supporting the local mo' units doing tactical exercises doesn't mean you're getting all the relevant training.

Remember, you guys actually have somthing you're preparing for. Eventually, there's going to be a serious earthquake in BC. Radio recces are VERY important.

Beyond that, the ideal exercises right now involve mostly aide to civil power (Combined with SOME tactical exercises), joint exercises with local emergency response agencies, fire departments, ground search and rescue, heck, even BC Hydro if you can get them in on it.

Regardless, as has been pointed out, joining the brigade doesn't mean all the problems will be instantly solved.

 

[sisyphus]

Beyond that, the ideal exercises right now involve mostly aide to civil power (Combined with SOME tactical exercises), joint exercises with local emergency response agencies, fire departments, ground search and rescue, heck, even BC Hydro if you can get them in on it.

        I'm forced to disagree with you on that one. We're at war. Ideal exercises are those that involve training our soldiers for overseas deployments in support of combat operations.Working in a CP supporting militia units is an excellent way to get Sig Ops to practice maintaining situational awareness of a battlespace, just like they'll be expected to do overseas. Hopefully joining the Bdes will move comms units into more of a war fighting mind set.

 

[2929]

Actually, you're still way off. Just because you're passing traffic doesn't mean you're getting valid training. You know the VP, move on. Beyond that, just because you're supporting the local mo' units doing tactical exercises doesn't mean you're getting all the relevant training.

Remember, you guys actually have somthing you're preparing for. Eventually, there's going to be a serious earthquake in BC. Radio recces are VERY important.

Beyond that, the ideal exercises right now involve mostly aide to civil power (Combined with SOME tactical exercises), joint exercises with local emergency response agencies, fire departments, ground search and rescue, heck, even BC Hydro if you can get them in on it.

I'm sorry, but I'll have to disagree. It would be nice if we could have aid to civil power exercises where we worked w/ civilian agencies but in reality that does not happen, at least not at my end.

As of right now our aid to civil power exercises involve, as I've said before, setting up a huge CP (not running it while working w/ other agencies or militia units, just setting it up and tearing down) and testing our RRB locations. Granted testing out RRB locations is very important but, when you have people in those dets who don't know how to use the equipment (our quad mount for example) how effective is the testing really? Skill fade is a huge problem.

What I'm trying to get at here is that we need to do more actual tactical (or DOMOPS) exercises with other units (civilian or militia). Doing this allows the operators to actually use and improve their skills. What we are doing right now helps nothing. Actually using the equipment for more then ten minutes and falling into det routine (while supporting other units/civilian agencies) is what we need to be doing. It gives the operators a challenge when problems arrive, it allows them to interact w/ other units, it lets them actually use the equipment, it gives them a chance to do their job, it challenges their skils. Sig Ops are not mod monkeys, they are there mainly to PROVIDE COMMANDERS AND THEIR STAFF THE MEANS TO EXERCISE COMMAND AND CONTROL. If all you do is set up giant CP's and test RRB locations when the big one hits you'll wont be able to provide anything but a well put together piece of mod and the ability to screw in an RRB cable.

Regardless, as has been pointed out, joining the brigade doesn't mean all the problems will be instantly solved.

This I agree with.

Will being a Bde asset solve some of our problems? Yes.
Will it solve all our problems? No.
Will it create more problems? Maybe

 

[2929]

        I'm forced to disagree with you on that one. We're at war. Ideal exercises are those that involve training our soldiers for overseas deployments in support of combat operations.Working in a CP supporting militia units is an excellent way to get Sig Ops to practice maintaining situational awareness of a battlespace, just like they'll be expected to do overseas. Hopefully joining the Bdes will move comms units into more of a war fighting mind set.

+1

Also a good point.

Situational awareness of a battlespace (or a domestic emergency space for that matter) is an important skill for Sig Ops. The trg we currently do does nothing to help that skill. Supporting other units does.

 

[geo]

FWIW, I have regularly participated with Comms Res & Reg types on Bde exercises.  However,  getting dets to come out on the smaller training ex at Bn & Coy level would make Comms a regular part of the scenery & we would learn how to better use the resources you have to offer.

It's a little bit like a Service Battalion that is too busy training it's own troops ... so they never go out into the field to support units on Ex.  Then they complain on large Ex when same said units don't use the resources they have to offer..... ?/?  Go figure!

 

[Radop]

Wow, I read the whole post without hitting reply eventhough some points I wanted to lash out but someone had already beat me to it.  What those of you in the reserves are going through right now is what HQ and Sigs were going through 5 years ago.  Our main mandate changed from supporting only the Bde HQ to supporting the HQ and units.  This not only meant more training, it meant more realistic training.  When a unit such as the RCRs go out to do a lvl 5 or higher exercise, sigs go to support and provide a link to the Bde HQ.  Some times we would set up the CP, sometimes we would just remote it into the HQ's building.  Logging of information and tracking of training was done in real time in a method that most will see overseas.  We may use a different radio (522 vs 117) but the VP and shift working is more along what would be done in Afghanistan or during an Aide to Civil Authority/Power Ex.  The only unit in the comms world who is a bit different (inject your laughter here) is the Regiment in Kingston.  They support missions through broad band satcom from command elements on the ground to command elements in Ottawa.  This involves some special training and therefore, different consideration.  They are also asked to support all branches of the military.  Right now, they support mainly army formations but don't forget, Mirage is Airforce.  As for funding, if the exercises are conducted properly, the units using the resourse ussually pay for that resourse.  Therefore, if the N Sask R in Saskatoon uses the comms reserves to run a CP for them during an exercise, the pay for those soldiers, the fuel for their generators and vehicles and allowences should come from their budgets.

What is a bigger concearn for me being reg force, is the trg level of the people coming to us from the reserves.  We get some good soldiers, mainly adequet soldiers and some horrible ones just like what we have in the units.  The problem is highlighted though because of a lack of training/experience of these same soldiers.  We had reservists with us both in Kingston and Pet.  For the most part, these soldiers worded hard to become competant soldiers in the field (I use that term loosely for all my friends still at the Regiment as I include you in that trainting).  Unfortunately, the soldiers need time to get to the level we need them to work at which takes time, money and resourses (read the other topics for more on this).  We both need the reserves to work more with the regs as well, to come out and see how we do things, see what we stress and see if your training is meeting or exceeding ours.  For ex/ we had an ex in Ottawa where the reserve det was attached to us who took 45 min to back up their trailer, started to set up their sleeping accommidations before the HQ and didn't crack the door to the back of their truck until well after 1 hr of arriving in loc.  We told them that this was unacceptable and they said that was the way their unit did things.  They obviously didn't realize that the RSS Sgt who was in their unit had just came from our unit.  He didn't see it that way.

 

[career_radio-checker]

What is a bigger concearn for me being reg force, is the trg level of the people coming to us from the reserves.  We get some good soldiers, mainly adequet soldiers and some horrible ones just like what we have in the units.  The problem is highlighted though because of a lack of training/experience of these same soldiers.  We had reservists with us both in Kingston and Pet.  For the most part, these soldiers worded hard to become competant soldiers in the field (I use that term loosely for all my friends still at the Regiment as I include you in that trainting).  Unfortunately, the soldiers need time to get to the level we need them to work at which takes time, money and resourses (read the other topics for more on this).  We both need the reserves to work more with the regs as well, to come out and see how we do things, see what we stress and see if your training is meeting or exceeding ours.  For ex/ we had an ex in Ottawa where the reserve det was attached to us who took 45 min to back up their trailer, started to set up their sleeping accommidations before the HQ and didn't crack the door to the back of their truck until well after 1 hr of arriving in loc.  We told them that this was unacceptable and they said that was the way their unit did things.  They obviously didn't realize that the RSS Sgt who was in their unit had just came from our unit.  He didn't see it that way.

Was the location at NDMC? And did this ex happen about 2 yrs ago?
If so, I know which regiment and who you speak of and understand your pain. (No, it wasn't me)

 

[geo]

well... practice makes perfect.  If you don't include practice in your formula - you won't get perfection.

Radop, you are absolutely correct, there are Heros & Zeros in the Regs AND the Res.  Because the Res guys have less practical experience, their weaknesses are magnified BUT, the reservists bring some skill sets that their Reg counterparts don't necessarily have.

One of my former NCOs was deployed to BH sometime around '94 or 95,  slated as a section 2 i/c in one of the rifle platoons, someone suddenly caught on that this guy was a senior electronic tech with CAE.... and suddenly he was "otherwise occupied" for the duration of his deployment.

 

[smitty66]

I just signed up for an account I ran across this thread, so I guess I'll weigh in.
Having spent time in both the Militia (Infantry) and the Comm Res (Sig Op), I have seen the best and worst of both organizations.

WRT Comms Spt provided by Comm Res units to Bde and Area Ex, for the most part the Comm Res Tps have stepped up to the plate, and done fine job providing CPs, Signallers, etc. I think part of the problem lies in a lack of experience coordinating the expected training outcomes of a combined exercise. It seems at time the "grownups" don't talk enough. I've had Signallers working with my platoon on Infantry exercises that loved being a Pl Sig, while others would rather be in a CP drinking coffee. The point I'm trying to make is the Bde HQ staff should be looking at what is required by all of the participating units WRT Training Outcomes and required Support, and do their best to accommodate them. Not everyone will be happy all the time but with time hopefully it will get better. We can't expect it work overnight.

In the area of soldier training I would have to agree with Sig_Des on this. The Comm Res running it's own recruit training school is ludicrous. There is no reason to fly troops to Shilo to do a Basic. There are resources at the Area Training Centres to accomplish the ends. The addition of the potential Instructors and Unit resources to the mix would certainly help with the equipment and personnel requirements. It just never made any sense to me flying troops out there when they could drive, in most cases, a few hours and be at an ATC. Also the ability to load Comm Res Tps on a Garrison run BMQ would certainly shorten the amount of time required to get them loaded on a QL3 and doing trades training. One thing the Comm Res can benefit from with this change is more experience working with the other trades on a more regular basis. No trade operates alone in the field. Once the working relationships get hammered out, BOTH sides can garner some positive results. IMHO there hasn't been enough of a priority set on providing the Militia the Sigs support it needs. As stated above, it was fairly low on the list of unit priorities. This will most likely change, and I think that's a good thing. 

I totally agree with Radop that the Reg and Res signallers need to work more closely. One of the areas that is problematic is kit. I was in Kingston on my QL 5 last summer. When we were completing the NCCIS portion we had some NS kit issues. When the Techs showed up to assist (I should mention that they went above and beyond helping us resurrect some old kit ), they hadn't seen an LCT or QRT in years. Obviously the Reg Force is using newer kit, so trying to train to a more common standard WRT equipment is going to be a problem.  Also as Radop stated there are good, adequate, and poor soldiers in both components, we are just a cross section of the society  from whence we came. I think that time, money, equipment, familiarity and patience can help to bridge the some of gap, but cooperation in training is probably going to give us the most bang for the buck.

To sum up, I think the Comm Res "going away" is not necessarily a bad thing (other than the money), but the task of integrating the Sqns into the Bde framework should really be scrutinized and examined thouroughly. The last thing we need is a convoluted "New Approach". Let's look at the Reg Force Bde HQ Sigs Sqn model and not try to reinvent the wheel.

At the end of the day we all belong to the same team and have a common purpose, to "make talky-box work", and give the members of the chain the ability to pass info up and orders down.

 

[career_radio-checker]

At the end of the day we all belong to the same team and have a common purpose, to "make talky-box work", and give the members of the chain the ability to pass info up and orders down.

Excellent first post Smitty and I think your last comment sums up the message loud and clear.

 

[Sig_Des]

Smitty,

always good to see a familiar name here, and seeing yours has brought a huge smile to my face. Welcome to the addiction!

Glad to see that you agree.

While I'm disappointed that I won't be back to the Comm Res world to enjoy them, I'm personally looking forward to some positive changes.

Definitely agree with your point about some of the kit, particularly on our QL5 courses. Now, just to clarify, when we used the LCTs and QRTs we were on an "NCCIS light" course, not an official course (It doesn't have a course number) something that was tacked on by Comm Res after a member's QL5A course.

In fact, one of Smitty's roomates had been excused from said course as he had already done an NCCIS Heavy course. What's the use of an NCCIS light course? I don't see it if it's not an official course.

As far as the kit, agreed wholeheartedly. Those techs did an amazing job patching up these trucks, but there's only so much you can do when pieces of equipment for the kit aren't available for replacement and you don't deal with the equipment. We had to cannibalize about 7 QRT kits to get 3 working.

I understand that the NCCIS Light would teach Res Sig Ops how to use kit that's used at their units, but I'd rather see that as unit run OJT training, and make Res Sig Ops available for NCCIS Heavy courses, especially with the number of Res Sig Ops going on deployments nowadays. Would make a much easier common ground when working with Regs.