Communist Canada? and a Nation without a army

[Tweed]

Hello to whoever is viewing this topic,



      I'm Cadet Tweed, and if your wondering about the title its a little story that shocked me. It was happened one day when i was on my bus talking to my bus driver and i asked him what he thought about our new government, seeing as for almost all of Canada's History we have had Liberals in office, and his reply "I don't like any of them, were more communist then anything, being told what to do by the government". Now I'm not that big into politics, but i know the lines of communism, and Canada is nothing like communism. On the other part of this title "and a Nation without a army" is another story happening on the same bus ride, i said, "well i like the government, hopefully the will invest more money in our Military" because i want to see our military succeed, not fail. I asked him what would happen if say we didn't have a Military, and say a Invasion happened, what would we do? and he said " All the farmers would take there guns and fight" ...now correct me if I'm wrong but Farmers? against a Army of people trained for combat, so i asked about what if they used air strikes, tanks, etc...and he said " all we need is fertilizer and diesel fuel, to make Fertilizer bombs"

But wouldn't a Military have a bit more resources? A-bombs...(not saying they'd use them) and Ballistic Missles...etc...against what? some farmers with say shotguns and fertilizer bombs! I tried to tell him we needed a army, in this day and age, its basically if you look at someone funny they declare war, and in the case of a national disaster we need relief from the Military don't we? Also people complain that we don't need a military, there good for nothing (i bit my tongue when i heard that) but when a disaster occurs and the military is no more its "where is the military? we need the military!"


Well this is my little story, have fun picking at it


      -Tweed

 

[Franko]

All,

I placed this thread here to spark some good debate...and to enlighten him on a few points.

Regards

 

[Tweed]

Thank you Franko, i should of known to post it here

- Tweed

 

[nULL]

If you're interested in material of that nature consider going into poltical science in university.

For now though, stay in school and don't do drugs.

 

[Tweed]

If you're interested in material of that nature consider going into poltical science in university.

For now though, stay in school and don't do drugs.

Don't worry, i will stay in school, and wont do drugs, why would i want to mess my chances of joining the army for a five minute high?
(not meaning to sound mean)
-Tweed

 

[nULL]

I can't believe I spelled "political" incorrectly.

Always use spell check.

 

[Trinity]

For now though, stay in school and don't do drugs.

Seriously.. is your bus driver Otto from the Simpson's?

My biggest concern about farmers as soldiers is no one is
going to grow my food.  Then our new country under our new
rulers will have NO farmers and we'll all die of starvation and
lead to Canada becoming a nation full of cannibals.

Maybe.. we should send the BUSDRIVERS to war...  yeah!!!!
Who needs an education anyways.. if you can't walk to school,
you can become a farmer!  :

 

[couchcommander]

You'd be surprised the number of people, even (especially?) educated ones who don't feel that we need an army for whatever reason.

They just see it as a bunch of guys running around with guns killing innocent civilians who really have no purpose in our society.

They usually add that the RCMP could do the job for cheaper (disaster assistance, sovereignty), and the usual "Who is going to attack us?".... it's unfortunate that we have been so removed from the realities of the world for so long that this view is prevalent.

Next time you run into it, just ask them if they have insurance, and then point out it's much the same. We don't want a war, but should one break out, it's better to be able to do something about it. They're usually pretty removed from current affairs, so pointing out that a kerfuffle is in the making with arctic resources may tune them in a little bit more.

As for the communism comment... lol. Ask him to define the word and watch him squirm.

 

[RangerRay]

Probably what he meant by "communist" was that Canada has for most of the century moved towards a statist socialist construct with the government increasingly interfering in the lives and economies of Canadians.  Those uneducated about politics tend to focus their anger on the government in general, rather than the policies of specific parties running the government.

As for his comment about "farmers fighting in times of war"...well, I'd posit that he has absolutely no clue about what he is talking about.  Not only do the farmers have to continue to grow food during war, but they would be no match for a modern and professional enemy military.  His thinking is about 200 years old.

In short, this guy sounds like he can't tell his arse from his head.

 

[Tweed]

Seriously.. is your bus driver Otto from the Simpson's?

My biggest concern about farmers as soldiers is no one is
going to grow my food.  Then our new country under our new
rulers will have NO farmers and we'll all die of starvation and
lead to Canada becoming a nation full of cannibals.

Maybe.. we should send the BUSDRIVERS to war...  yeah!!!!
Who needs an education anyways.. if you can't walk to school,
you can become a farmer!  :

Farmers as soldiers, lol. we could always import for food, say from....the states? or somewhere else, but farmers as soldiers...ha!

You'd be surprised the number of people, even (especially?) educated ones who don't feel that we need an army for whatever reason.

They just see it as a bunch of guys running around with guns killing innocent civilians who really have no purpose in our society.

They usually add that the RCMP could do the job for cheaper (disaster assistance, sovereignty), and the usual "Who is going to attack us?".... it's unfortunate that we have been so removed from the realities of the world for so long that this view is prevalent.

Next time you run into it, just ask them if they have insurance, and then point out it's much the same. We don't want a war, but should one break out, it's better to be able to do something about it. They're usually pretty removed from current affairs, so pointing out that a kerfuffle is in the making with arctic resources may tune them in a little bit more.

As for the communism comment... lol. Ask him to define the word and watch him squirm.

Yes! this makes loads of sense, And Canada needs a military, for disasters and other things, we don't want a army of farmers do we? some tractors with a little pitch fork on the end for a tank. but seriously, we need the military for, alot of things I've already listed, and i want a job for the future!

Probably what he meant by "communist" was that Canada has for most of the century moved towards a statist socialist construct with the government increasingly interfering in the lives and economies of Canadians.  Those uneducated about politics tend to focus their anger on the government in general, rather than the policies of specific parties running the government.

As for his comment about "farmers fighting in times of war"...well, I'd posit that he has absolutely no clue about what he is talking about.  Not only do the farmers have to continue to grow food during war, but they would be no match for a modern and professional enemy military.  His thinking is about 200 years old.

In short, this guy sounds like he can't tell his arse from his head.

Well, he did mean actual communism, he even said, it was somthing like, were being more like the communists, of the Fomer USSR.  My bus driver is kinda weird, but i guess thats what your get for being from Alberta, and i don't think he finished school

- Tweed

 

[Garry]

Tweed,

I think I'd like your bus driver

I'd call the last 20 years of our political system much more socialist than communist. However, your driver is 100% correct that Canadians are abandoning their free will in favour of Government dominance. There are so many programs to keep the lazy fed and quiet- compounding the problem is the expectations by individuals that "the state" owes them a living.

Nothing could be further from the truth. Those of us who actually produce things are taxed to the hilt to ensure that those who don't have Oprah and pizza delight every day. It will stop eventually.

Being a Cadet (and good for you!) maybe time to expand yourself a little. If you have a good book store handy, try reading "Atlas Shrugged" By Ann Rand (sp??) Kinda tough read, but very educational.

Quote (attributed to several folk) "Democracy works until the electorate realises they can vote themselves money"...Happened here already.

As for the Army- imho it has NO business saving the country from natural disasters- that's what citizens are there for. No reason to lay around in a shelter when you can be productive. (By the way, Iworked emergency management for years)

I'm also a little radical in that I see no reason to waste my country's children in some poo- hole half way around the world, just to save theirs. I'm a little greeady maybe? On the other hand, I have no compunction against sending our children to hammer the enemy in his own back yard- better to fight in their turf, let their families experience the horror of violence than mine.

The Canadian Military is full of wonderfull, talented, dedicated professionals- unfortunately, the last time there were enough of them to defend Canada was at the close of WWII. Since then, we've downsized dramatically, and based the defense of our country on the United States.

As for farmers defending our country- that's whose done it throughout history. Canada has always had an extremely small, professional Army. When the trumpet's blow, it's the citizens of Canada that come forward, don the uniform, and shoulder the load. They've done very well so far.

The Chinese Army (if rumour is to be beleived) shelved planning an attack on the US as they felt they couldn't possibly fight 300 million armed people. (private gun ownership is banned in much of the world...Hitler, Mao, Idi...and many, many other despots made private ownership of guns illegal withing months after taking power of their respective countries)..PS- Canada has (had, anyways) a larger per capita of gun ownership than the States.

Want to get motivated? Go rent the movie "Red Dawn". A little old, hokey, and unrealistic, but gets the blood moving

Most importantly- question everything. Make your own mind up, based on your own experience.

Enjoy life- Garry

 

[couchcommander]

Sorry, explain to me how Canada has had or is moving towards an economic model where the means of production are owned by the collective whole of the people?

If you mean to say there have been some social democrats in government, then fine ok. However I would hardly call social democracy a guiding principle of our nation (ie the use of democracy to move towards an economic model where the means of production are owned by the collective whole of the people, it would seem with all of the deregulation, selling of crown corporations, and free trade agreements we are going in the opposite direction).

I would, however, definitely agree that we have been, for the most part, guided by what we in Canada would call a liberal social policy and have been maintaining a welfare state.

 

[thatoldfool]

I'd like to throw in my two cents re: farmers fighting.

From August to November, I hitch-hiked from Quebec to the coast of BC and back, and I'll tell you, perhaps it's not the farmers that will fight, but that a lot of Northern Canadians--largely rural folk--hold strong views about sovereignty. Numerous times, while discussing politics, I was told that if Canada were ever invaded, these people would fight. Most often, I was told that they would take to the woods, and in the "insurgent-like" manner we're seeing in the middle east, cause trouble without directly engaging a force that is clearly superior in many ways, both in training and technology.

While the feasability of this is debatable, I have to say that it's somewhat heartening--that these people actually care enough, having sworn no oath of allegiance, to fight for Canada.

So..that's that. My two cents...

 

[badpup]

Good topic...What does it mean to you to be Canadian?
Would you lay down your life for the rest of your Country?
...I would, Many of my ancestors have.
Do you support current Military actions?
I do, as we have an obligation under The Un to Combat the forces of 9/11 Terrorism( see other threads)I would also volunteer for a return to active duty to fulfill my obligations and desires for my country.
Do you support your Government?
I do and have through many of them, both Liberal and Conservative, as They are the "Crown" I have disliked policies of both, but have carried out my duties as ordered.

My question?
What does it mean to you to be a Canadian?
My Answer:
To be a member of a free society, where discussion and discourse are common, where history and heritage are instilled in youth.
And finally to be welcomed in the world as a fair and impartial warrior on the side of all that is good and just!

 

[parkie]

Boy! that's a good one, farmers with guns against a highly trained military force.can you imagine.what's next ?

Well, gotta go slop the pigs and polish my gun!
                                                                                                      A.C.(parkie)
                                                                      Princess Patricia's canadian light farmers with guns

 

[Franko]

Well, gotta go slop the pigs and polish my gun!
                                                                                                      A.C.(parkie)
                                                                      Princess Patricia's canadian light farmers with guns

:rofl:

That made my day!

Regards

 

[Dogboy]

a littel bit of history is in order
remember the Spanish revolution
some of the Most effective brigades where the Anarchist ones that where made up of all volunteer workers and farmers fighting for their homes not the spit polished commies or the well armed fascist.
2 insurgents fighting in a asymmetrical war has beaten some of the most powerfull army's in the world (Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan for USSR..etc.)
no one knows a contrey better the the people who live their.
and 3 Canada is not turning commie not until I see some reclaming of Private controlled companies return under gov. control (oil, gas, power, phone,)

 

[couchcommander]

Hey Dogboy,

Training methods have progressed at little since the 1930's.

Indeed insurgents fighting in an asymmetrical war have beaten some of the worlds most powerful armies... at great cost (and I'm not sure whether or not we should count Iraq as a loss yet...). Their lack of training and equipment, however, I am sure was not by choice, and more a product of circumstance (ie not a good thing, but just something they found a way to deal with).

At least you got number 3!

 

[a_majoor]

A few historical notes to bend your minds and help begin your research:

Historically, farmers have made the best soldiers of all, because they are already inured to a life of constant physical hardship and exertion (joining for "three squares and a sack" would have been the high point of many a young man's life back when). In certain historical contexts, farmers are also highly motivated since they are fighting for the land they own (this is the thesis of Victor Davis Hansen, you can look it up in many of his books), or in a more general sense, fighting as a team of equals for shared principles and values. Even in this day and age, it isn't so much the machinery but who is controlling it, and a high proportion of American servicemen and women seem to come from rural or small town backgrounds.

As for our system of governance; to be correctly political it is tending towards Fascism, i.e. although private ownership of property is allowed,the outcomes of ownership do not accrue to the owners, but are directed by the State through taxation and regulation. Instead of the "blood and soil" sort of Fascism popular in the 1920s through 1945 or so, we have "Welfare Fascism", where the "rich" and productive are harnessed to provide for the "collective good" and support the "poor". (How is it that with so much money being spent to fight poverty, the number of poor people always seem to be increasing?).

Enjoy

 

[Cliff]

Tweed,

I seriously doubt Canada will be invaded anytime soon = so don't lose any sleep over it. The way I see it North America looks like it's merging as one nation. Almost like what happened in Europe.