- Reaction score
- 4,897
- Points
- 1,160
How is it the same circumstances? You're now Regular Force, and getting a free university education. That's why your pay isn't the same.
PuckChaser said:
Believe me, I understand the value of a paid education. But if my pay is simply being rerouted to cover the cost, then are my studies really being subsidized in full? I don't see this as a reason why my pay should drop. Now, if there is no clause stating that my pay cannot be decreased, then the situation is what it is.
- Reaction score
- 4,897
- Points
- 1,160
You're getting paid at the same rate as any other ROTP officer. Its lower because the CAF won't get real work out of you for another 4 years. NCMs who commission do not have vested rights to pay, they are starting at IPC 0 of whatever entry plan (UTPNCM or CFR). A MCpl going UTPNCM is going to lose a couple hundred a month going to 2nd Lieutenant IPC 0, and a Sgt CFRing is going to lose the same going to Lieutenant IPC 0.
Your drop is sharper because the CAF hasn't invested anything into you yet, so there doesn't need to be a pay incentive to keep you around. You should, however, maintain any IPC levels you had. So if you were getting paid at NCdt(1), that should be your new incentive in the Regular Force. Also keep in mind that when comissioned to ASlt (your profile rank is RCN so I'm using those references), your basic pay rate is HIGHER than a DEO that will commission on completion of BMOQ.
This was all in your offer that you accepted as part of the Component Transfer, you basically only get to keep your IPC level, if that was 0, then you're SOL. CBI 204 is your reference for pay on CT/OT/etc.
Your drop is sharper because the CAF hasn't invested anything into you yet, so there doesn't need to be a pay incentive to keep you around. You should, however, maintain any IPC levels you had. So if you were getting paid at NCdt(1), that should be your new incentive in the Regular Force. Also keep in mind that when comissioned to ASlt (your profile rank is RCN so I'm using those references), your basic pay rate is HIGHER than a DEO that will commission on completion of BMOQ.
This was all in your offer that you accepted as part of the Component Transfer, you basically only get to keep your IPC level, if that was 0, then you're SOL. CBI 204 is your reference for pay on CT/OT/etc.
SJC000 said:
SJC000 said:
You were getting paid to go to school full-time on class B?
PuckChaser said:
I always thought there was some sort of pay protection so this is surprising to me. I thought this was the main reason (along with pension considerations) to go CT/OT (internal competition) versus releasing and re-applying (external competition). Lots of CT/OTs go the ROTP route and I don't think they have to go to a 1700$/month wage. The utpncm and cfr payscales seem to work better for quasi pay protection than the ct method though. Do IPCs from the PRes world translate to the same IPC in the RegF if the IPCs weren't earned on a full-time basis?
- Reaction score
- 28,539
- Points
- 1,090
1. The Res F 85% of Reg F rule does not apply to Pte, OCdt and 2Lt; those rates are greater than 85% the Reg F equivalents to act as an attraction tool.
2. There is no guarantee of "pay protection" on CT; there are several situations where gross pay may be reduced.
3. Individuals with prior NCM service who enter the Reg F as officers are most susceptible to such situations, but the same situation can arise for others.
4. Remember that when on class B for a short term your deductions at source will differ from your deductions at source while on long-term full-time service; for example, the Basic Personal Deduction has less of an impact over 12 months than it would over a shorter period.
If you have concerns about the TOS you received on CT you can go back to your broker and ask questions.
2. There is no guarantee of "pay protection" on CT; there are several situations where gross pay may be reduced.
3. Individuals with prior NCM service who enter the Reg F as officers are most susceptible to such situations, but the same situation can arise for others.
4. Remember that when on class B for a short term your deductions at source will differ from your deductions at source while on long-term full-time service; for example, the Basic Personal Deduction has less of an impact over 12 months than it would over a shorter period.
If you have concerns about the TOS you received on CT you can go back to your broker and ask questions.
- Reaction score
- 4,897
- Points
- 1,160
They determine what rank you will be given in the RegF (Cpl is a protected rank so if you have that in PRes you won't go below, not sure about officer), and then determine IPC based off time served. Class A days are counted at 1/4 (4 Cl A = 1 RegF day) and any time spent Cl B is 1:1.
Had SJC000 been commissioned in the PRes to ASlt, he would have kept that and not been on the NCdt end of ROTP. Because s/he was not commissioned, the ROTP OCdt/NCdt pay scale is going to apply along with whatever IPC based on that formula. Also keep in mind that once s/he reaches occupational function point (OFP), and completes their degree, promotion to ASlt (in this case) and simulatenous promotion to Slt will result, jumping significantly in the pay scales. http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/87678/post-856805.html#msg856805
Also, what DAP said.
Had SJC000 been commissioned in the PRes to ASlt, he would have kept that and not been on the NCdt end of ROTP. Because s/he was not commissioned, the ROTP OCdt/NCdt pay scale is going to apply along with whatever IPC based on that formula. Also keep in mind that once s/he reaches occupational function point (OFP), and completes their degree, promotion to ASlt (in this case) and simulatenous promotion to Slt will result, jumping significantly in the pay scales. http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/87678/post-856805.html#msg856805
Also, what DAP said.
rnkelly said:
No. I was on Class B completing BMOQ and my first trade course
PuckChaser said:
As of fairly recently, commissioned officers in the Reserve are no longer eligible for ROTP, I was only admitted as I was a NCdt, not holding a commission. To clarify my personal situation, I was a NCdt in the Naval Reserve training to be a MARS Officer; I am now an OCdt in the RCAF, training to become a Pilot.
Also, what's this about simultaneous promotion to Lieutenant? I must be misunderstanding this bit, as I thought (in my case) one is only granted this promotion upon Wings qualification.
- Reaction score
- 4,897
- Points
- 1,160
Its a little different for Pilots, you'll have to look up the CFAO 11-6 on DWAN, as its not on the internet anymore. If you reach OFP prior to completing your degree, you'll be promoted twice as the prereq for 2Lt is the degree, and Lt is OFP.
garb811 said:
The CT people I was in touch with. I just got a different email, asked them and I have now been in touch with my file manager for the trade.
She mentioned a random vital bit of info they will be looking at, that would have been great to know any time up until yesterday. Stuff like this is why I never just relax and let these "Systems" work.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 10
Broker info:
Ive had my CT in for 1 year from res. Infantry to Reg. Infantry NCM.
Been in contact with a super helpful broker, just posting an update for infantry specific CT from res. to reg.
Although a lot of battalions are bleeding for man-power, the SIPS doesn't seem to reflect it unfortunately, there is a high demand for infantry man-power from off the street as the reserve for is trying to retain members.
This year, RCR and PPCLI were offered circa 30 spots each for CT Infantry NCM. There are a few spots remaining at the moment (mid-September 2017) but my broker has notified me of the possibility of attaining a few more spots closer to the new year. Albeit, the new fiscal year starts 4 months after 2018 swings around.
I have had my CT in for reg. infantry for 1 year now, I am around number 50 in line. So, not likely going to happen this year. Ive heard a lot of talk about people releasing from the P-Res. and re-signing for reg.force after waiting a period of time, not sure how effective that is. I am comfortable with waiting, although some insist it's an option.
Can anyone clarify the above statement? :cdnsalute:
Ive had my CT in for 1 year from res. Infantry to Reg. Infantry NCM.
Been in contact with a super helpful broker, just posting an update for infantry specific CT from res. to reg.
Although a lot of battalions are bleeding for man-power, the SIPS doesn't seem to reflect it unfortunately, there is a high demand for infantry man-power from off the street as the reserve for is trying to retain members.
This year, RCR and PPCLI were offered circa 30 spots each for CT Infantry NCM. There are a few spots remaining at the moment (mid-September 2017) but my broker has notified me of the possibility of attaining a few more spots closer to the new year. Albeit, the new fiscal year starts 4 months after 2018 swings around.
I have had my CT in for reg. infantry for 1 year now, I am around number 50 in line. So, not likely going to happen this year. Ive heard a lot of talk about people releasing from the P-Res. and re-signing for reg.force after waiting a period of time, not sure how effective that is. I am comfortable with waiting, although some insist it's an option.
Can anyone clarify the above statement? :cdnsalute:
Hi all,
I applied to MedA last April, unsure of whether I would be accepted into a Masters of Physiotherapy (MPT) program or not (which I was not in 2016). Come 2017 April, I was sworn in as a MedA, and just completed BMQ in July. At the same time, however, I was fortunate enough to be accepted to an MPT program in Ontario. I'd like to work with the CAF as a Physio Officer once I graduate, so I just applied to CT into the SEELM program last week so that they can hopefully pay for it. Just as a side note, my medical, physical test, and CFAT are all good to go in terms of applying for Officer (or so I was told by my CFRC at the time).
My question:
How long does it generally take for them to review CT's into subsidized education programs? Also, since school already started last week, is there any chance that the CAF would pay for this year, or at least my next two semesters (since tuition fees haven't been due yet for Term 2)?
I can't seem to find any info on my specific circumstance, and obviously the CFRC has no role in this.
Any guidance would be much appreciated.
I applied to MedA last April, unsure of whether I would be accepted into a Masters of Physiotherapy (MPT) program or not (which I was not in 2016). Come 2017 April, I was sworn in as a MedA, and just completed BMQ in July. At the same time, however, I was fortunate enough to be accepted to an MPT program in Ontario. I'd like to work with the CAF as a Physio Officer once I graduate, so I just applied to CT into the SEELM program last week so that they can hopefully pay for it. Just as a side note, my medical, physical test, and CFAT are all good to go in terms of applying for Officer (or so I was told by my CFRC at the time).
My question:
How long does it generally take for them to review CT's into subsidized education programs? Also, since school already started last week, is there any chance that the CAF would pay for this year, or at least my next two semesters (since tuition fees haven't been due yet for Term 2)?
I can't seem to find any info on my specific circumstance, and obviously the CFRC has no role in this.
Any guidance would be much appreciated.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 10
So I've seen a lot of confusion as to the CT process, and as a person who is about to switch Reg F next week I wanted to say it's not that bad. I originally put in my CT in Apr 16 for 1. AEC 2. PLT 3. ACSO. Had an email requesting transcripts in Jul 16. Had BPSO interview in Nov 16. Aircrew Med Pt I in Dec 16. Aircrew Selection Jan 31st, 17. Aircrew Pt II Feb 1st 17. Offer of employment Aug 17, COS date 19 Sep 17.
Once I got the email requesting transcripts I immediately emailed back that address and they replied with the name of my broker. I called and emailed him right away to introduce myself and was told I was 22nd in line for AEC and it would take years. I then went back door to his assistant who pushed me through BPSO/Aircrew Med Pt I and got everything done with her. Had my ACS booked by her and then she mysteriously stopped working at the CT cell. After successful completion of ACS, told the PSO in Trenton I wanted to switch PLT to 1 and did Aircrew Med II the next day. After that was constant emailing/calling with broker and anyone who would listen to me at the CT cell to keep my name fresh in their minds all the time. Ended up getting an offer shortly after that.
The whole point of this post is to say if you want the CT bad enough, you will find ways to get through the process. I could have sat in line for AEC and waited but by pushing through and finding out his assistant, I was able to get things done a lot faster. I also know a Pte from my unit who took less than a month from CT application to COS date for Wpns Tech, but he did it in Mar 17 and was able to slide in as they were hiring before the fiscal year. CT's don't have to be bad if you are willing to work for it.
Once I got the email requesting transcripts I immediately emailed back that address and they replied with the name of my broker. I called and emailed him right away to introduce myself and was told I was 22nd in line for AEC and it would take years. I then went back door to his assistant who pushed me through BPSO/Aircrew Med Pt I and got everything done with her. Had my ACS booked by her and then she mysteriously stopped working at the CT cell. After successful completion of ACS, told the PSO in Trenton I wanted to switch PLT to 1 and did Aircrew Med II the next day. After that was constant emailing/calling with broker and anyone who would listen to me at the CT cell to keep my name fresh in their minds all the time. Ended up getting an offer shortly after that.
The whole point of this post is to say if you want the CT bad enough, you will find ways to get through the process. I could have sat in line for AEC and waited but by pushing through and finding out his assistant, I was able to get things done a lot faster. I also know a Pte from my unit who took less than a month from CT application to COS date for Wpns Tech, but he did it in Mar 17 and was able to slide in as they were hiring before the fiscal year. CT's don't have to be bad if you are willing to work for it.
- Reaction score
- 2,540
- Points
- 1,190
I just found out that one of our newest recruits, who just enrolled within the last month or two, has requested a CT to the Reg Force. When I read the email, I audibly sighed. 
I know that it's already been said on here, but I will say it again for anyone non already in the military who is reading this thread: Joining the Reserves does NOT make it easier to join the Regular Force. All it does is make the whole process take much, much longer. While there are exceptions, joining the Reg Force off the street can take as little as a couple months, whereas a CT from the Primary Reserve to the Reg Force can take as much as 3 years, even if you meet all the requirements for transfer.
Do NOT join the reserves thinking it will make it easier to join the Ref Force.
If you are already in the military, especially if you are a recruiter, please make this abundantly clear to potential recruits.
I know that it's already been said on here, but I will say it again for anyone non already in the military who is reading this thread: Joining the Reserves does NOT make it easier to join the Regular Force. All it does is make the whole process take much, much longer. While there are exceptions, joining the Reg Force off the street can take as little as a couple months, whereas a CT from the Primary Reserve to the Reg Force can take as much as 3 years, even if you meet all the requirements for transfer.
Do NOT join the reserves thinking it will make it easier to join the Ref Force.
If you are already in the military, especially if you are a recruiter, please make this abundantly clear to potential recruits.
Lumber said:I just found out that one of our newest recruits, who just enrolled within the last month or two, has requested a CT to the Reg Force. When I read the email, I audibly sighed.
I know that it's already been said on here, but I will say it again for anyone non already in the military who is reading this thread: Joining the Reserves does NOT make it easier to join the Regular Force. All it does is make the whole process take much, much longer. While there are exceptions, joining the Reg Force off the street can take as little as a couple months, whereas a CT from the Primary Reserve to the Reg Force can take as much as 3 years, even if you meet all the requirements for transfer.
Do NOT join the reserves thinking it will make it easier to join the Ref Force.
If you are already in the military, especially if you are a recruiter, please make this abundantly clear to potential recruits.
That's a great point, Lumber!
However, from my perspective, it was more logical to join the Reserves as a MedA at that time instead of waiting around to find out if I get into a Physiotherapy program to enroll in the Reg Force instead. I'd rather serve my Country now than hopelessly wait to get an acceptance (if any) ...one day.... :cdnsalute:
I'm currently waiting on a component transfer to the Reg Force (just like everyone else) and was given the email for my broker over a month ago in order to find out the status of my transfer. I've since emailed him almost 4x in the last month trying to find out whats up.
Nothing.
I figure it isn't a very straining process to take a few minutes to look up a file (which I assume is electronic) and write a short email back indicating the candidates status.
Is there an alternate way in which I can find this information out?
It certainly would be nice to get a general bearing of this application so I can get a feel for how far into the future I can plan my life.
I get that CT's are the bottom of the pile in comparison to civvies but after a year I figure there should be at least one pair of eyes that have seen something.
Nothing.
I figure it isn't a very straining process to take a few minutes to look up a file (which I assume is electronic) and write a short email back indicating the candidates status.
Is there an alternate way in which I can find this information out?
It certainly would be nice to get a general bearing of this application so I can get a feel for how far into the future I can plan my life.
I get that CT's are the bottom of the pile in comparison to civvies but after a year I figure there should be at least one pair of eyes that have seen something.
- Reaction score
- 4,897
- Points
- 1,160
You're doing a CT/OT, significantly lengthening your processing time. Only your broker will have information for you, and that broker is probably managing 1,000 files. Do you have DWAN access? If you do, you can look the broker's name up in the address list and there should be an office phone number. You're not just asking for a "general bearing", you want a timeline. That's significantly harder to answer than where you are in the process and what steps are remaining. If your posting history is correct, you're also only about 10 months into the process, some folks have waited 2 years for highly-sought trades.
