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Congratulations on Your Military Service… Now Here Are 9 Reasons Why I Won’t Hire You

daftandbarmy

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It's a crazy world right now is all I say. Most people in management around here can't get people in the door. I'm happy when we get four resumes for salary job. At one location we are happy to get one or two for good union jobs....yes you may have to start on midnights. But I did it.

There seems to be a big disconnect between the jobs and the workers or the kinds of jobs they want. It's super frustrating.

I will give you an example. One company I'm associated with has 350 full and part jobs. It has just one job everyone of the "kids" wants the social media and engagement job. But the schools and colleges are pumping those out as the job of the future. It just one job of 350.

I think many companies would hire ex military. Are you on time? Can you follow instructions? Basic military stuff well it was when was a militia private. That stuff never going out of style.

Back to this thread. Canadians and Canadian companies don't understand the military. They grew up with the schools...well you know. I think the CAF should reach out to more businesses and leaders. Invite them to your messes etc. Let them drive a LAV. Shoot a rifle. Can you imagine a local bank manager riding in tank. He will remember that forever. But after that take him to you training halls show the things you do that translates to his everyday world.

That used to happen in the Officers' Messes.

Then the Officers we promoted in the militia, for some reason, had alot of military experience/ contacts, but very weak contacts in the civilian world, and it just died along with our social and other connections with the community. For example, I can't think of the last time we invited the Mayor in to meet the unit. Bizarre.

The CFLC keeps up a 'tight smiled' brave front, but it's on a no win ticket IMHO.
 

Furniture

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Not too sure I would want to work for a company that expects a thank you note for giving me an interview.

For some reason that reminds me of the last time I seen a PSO in Petawawa. Buddy made me about turn and read the school degrees he had on his wall. Literally.
I'm fairly certain that the article is directed at people applying for management/"white" collar jobs, not the people applying for skilled "blue" collar ones. Though based on my impressions talking to friends in the office drone world, even there the over the top politeness and "boot licking" as we would call it, is the standard. Which is why I expect my next job/career will be in the skilled trades and not in an office.

It's interesting that PSOs have so much power over our careers, but so many seem to lack interpersonal, and leadership skills based on what I have heard from others.
 

Eaglelord17

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The blue collar employers I have had love having former military personnel. Their logic is simple, they tell us to go do something, and we do it without arguing. That and we tend to be much more willing to work overtime than our compatriots. A lot of the people who never were in the military fight back and argue over the stupidest little things. For example I saw a guy the other day blow a gasket over being asked to strap down a pallet. Mind you part of that is management not holding some of them accountable/not doing their job.
 

mariomike

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The blue collar employers I have had love having former military personnel. Their logic is simple, they tell us to go do something, and we do it without arguing.
When I hired on with the City, we came under the watchful eyes of the "46'ers". Post-war era, hard-nosed old vets who were big on, and instilled, the military values, which the emergency services followed in many ways back then.

Uniforms and grooming showed everything. Sloppy meant two things: lazy and disrespectful.

So, the transition from being a full-time student and part-time MSE Op was pretty simple for me. Tones go off. Doors go up. Wheels rolling within 60 seconds. Like an assembly line. Car, windshield. Car, windshield.

That and we tend to be much more willing to work overtime than our compatriots.

Willing or not, OT was mandated.

The tolerance for discipline and traditional top-down rule has changed over my time on the job. It seems more geared toward human resource policies that are designed to coddle employees and nurture their every need and want.
 

TCM621

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It's a crazy world right now is all I say. Most people in management around here can't get people in the door. I'm happy when we get four resumes for salary job. At one location we are happy to get one or two for good union jobs....yes you may have to start on midnights. But I did it.

There seems to be a big disconnect between the jobs and the workers or the kinds of jobs they want. It's super frustrating.

I will give you an example. One company I'm associated with has 350 full and part jobs. It has just one job everyone of the "kids" wants the social media and engagement job. But the schools and colleges are pumping those out as the job of the future. It just one job of 350.

I think many companies would hire ex military. Are you on time? Can you follow instructions? Basic military stuff well it was when was a militia private. That stuff never going out of style.

Back to this thread. Canadians and Canadian companies don't understand the military. They grew up with the schools...well you know. I think the CAF should reach out to more businesses and leaders. Invite them to your messes etc. Let them drive a LAV. Shoot a rifle. Can you imagine a local bank manager riding in tank. He will remember that forever. But after that take him to you training halls show the things you do that translates to his everyday world.
There used to be a program like that where employers would go out for "military training" where they would shoot guns, go for RHIB rides, ride a tank, etc. I think we should do more of it but maybe they have cut it because it is hard to impress someone who has a cutting edge cell phone in their pocket with 80s and 90s era equipment. "So first we insert the tape drive......"
 

mariomike

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it is hard to impress someone who has a cutting edge cell phone in their pocket with 80s and 90s era equipment.
Nothing new about that. The M135s we used to drive were built before I was.
 

ModlrMike

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There used to be a program like that where employers would go out for "military training" where they would shoot guns, go for RHIB rides, ride a tank, etc. I think we should do more of it but maybe they have cut it because it is hard to impress someone who has a cutting edge cell phone in their pocket with 80s and 90s era equipment. "So first we insert the tape drive......"
There still is, it's called Executrek. It comes under the purview of CFLC (Canadian Forces Liaison Council). Mostly taken advantage of by ResF units. We usually do one every year or two, but as you can imagine, COVID has put the brakes on that.
 

daftandbarmy

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There still is, it's called Executrek. It comes under the purview of CFLC (Canadian Forces Liaison Council). Mostly taken advantage of by ResF units. We usually do one every year or two, but as you can imagine, COVID has put the brakes on that.

They're a waste of time, sadly, and something of a virtue signalling, 'look how well integrated we are with the civilian community', dog and pony effort.

If you really want to integrate the CAF properly with the civilian working world there are far more meaningful, and lower profile, methods of doing that.
 

Colin Parkinson

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Not sure how that program worked, but perhaps having reservists nominate their bosses to come to live fire exercises to see how their junior manager handles a artillery fire mission for example or a section attack would help build the relationship and value to the employer, not to mention rewarding them for supporting the reserves. How many CO's send out "Thank you for supporting our reservists" certificates every year? A award for employers that go beyond the basic support would be nice as well.
 

CBH99

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There used to be a program like that where employers would go out for "military training" where they would shoot guns, go for RHIB rides, ride a tank, etc. I think we should do more of it but maybe they have cut it because it is hard to impress someone who has a cutting edge cell phone in their pocket with 80s and 90s era equipment. "So first we insert the tape drive......"
What was that program called?

I can see the posters in my mind, but I can't for the life of me remember the bloody name of the program. It was a pretty good way to connect local employers to their reservist employees.

A tour of the armoury, maybe play on the SAT system, observe a fire mission or room clearing, see some 'military looking kit' (most employers won't know whether that specific radio is current or not), etc etc. I remember some employers would bring their kids, who were happy to just be surrounded by it all for the day.

I'm surprised reserve units don't still do that?
 

Ping Monkey

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What was that program called?

I can see the posters in my mind, but I can't for the life of me remember the bloody name of the program. It was a pretty good way to connect local employers to their reservist employees.

A tour of the armoury, maybe play on the SAT system, observe a fire mission or room clearing, see some 'military looking kit' (most employers won't know whether that specific radio is current or not), etc etc. I remember some employers would bring their kids, who were happy to just be surrounded by it all for the day.

I'm surprised reserve units don't still do that?
Exercise Collaborative Spirit.

A few of my company's managers participated in 2019, really enjoying the experience. 2020 was nixed for obvious reasons. 😷

https://www.canada.ca/en/department...iritadayinthelifeofourcanadianarmysoldie.html
 

daftandbarmy

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Exercise Collaborative Spirit.

A few of my company's managers participated in 2019, really enjoying the experience. 2020 was nixed for obvious reasons. 😷

https://www.canada.ca/en/department...iritadayinthelifeofourcanadianarmysoldie.html


I had a look at some of the 'coaching' they give retiring military members on how to find a job.

Ironically, this was provided by people who've never, ever had a job outside of the CAF.
 

Loachman

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One of the keys is a decent resume/CV, and that is a challenge. The biggest part of that challenge is to translate military skills into phrases of interest to civilian recruiters.

A bunch of career transition seminars, or whatever they are called now, helped, but the greatest aid was a local job agency, ACFOMI https://www.acfomi.org/en/. Being the closest of the bunch to CFB Kingston probably helped their ability, but they were pretty good about the translation part. I had never thought of my years as a Military Helicopter Ride Booking Agent as a wealth of customer-support expertise before, for instance.

Start a Linked In profile as well.
 

daftandbarmy

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One of the keys is a decent resume/CV, and that is a challenge. The biggest part of that challenge is to translate military skills into phrases of interest to civilian recruiters.

No offense, but that's the biggest fallacy, of course, foisted upon job seekers by resume writing cliques, and people who don't know much about finding work in a tough civilian job market.

The most important thing is networks... knowing people who know you and what you can do: for them or others that they know. That's how most people find jobs. The resume is an afterthought, or should be, for someone with alot of prior work/ life experience.

The greatest deficit to any CAF member entering a labour market where they have no one who knows them is just that: they're invisible.

How to fix that? People need help getting introduced around. And no CAF member, apart from some reservists probably, or family members who have civilian jobs, can help much with that.
 

Colin Parkinson

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Start volunteering outside of the military and take an interest in things on the civy side before leaving, that`s a way to start a network, along with social media stuff liked Linkedin.
 

Good2Golf

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The most important thing is networks... knowing people who know you and what you can do: for them or others that they know. That's how most people find jobs. The resume is an afterthought, or should be, for someone with alot of prior work/ life experience.
This. Relationships form the market and trust is the commodity that flows in that market. Setting up non-DND relationships when possible before you release is a good thing to do if you can.
 

Furniture

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Thanks @daftandbarmy for posting these insights for those of us who joined the CAF straight out of school. As I near my retirement in the next couple of years it has started to become apparent how unprepared for the "outside" I am.
 

reveng

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The difference in workplace/organizational culture is also something to be aware of. For instance, if you're going to work for a defence contractor, you might be around a fair number of ex-military and find it familiar. Probably similar within DND and perhaps some employers in the S&I community. The same can't be said if you apply to work somewhere that revolves around "startup culture".
 

mariomike

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A 70% pension is considered the benchmark for working Canadians. That's what OMERS pays, and from what my sister told me, the CAF does also.

Does anyone who stayed in for the whole ride ( 70% ) feel the need for post-retirement employment?
 
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