Continental Defence Corvette

[Czech_pivo]

Man - thatd be cool if the number is actually 20. Odd question but beyond the USN would that put us into second place in NATO for tonnage assuming we max out all of the upcoming orders (15 destroyers, 20 corvettes/light frigates, 12 subs, 6 patrol ships, 2 support ships and whatever amount of orca replacements are bought)?

Also, how many more Protecteur-class will we need with all these ships?

A navy that is comparable to the 2nd largest country in the world that also has the world's longest coastline spanning 3 of the 5 world oceans.

 

[Rainbow1910]

20 Corvettes/FFLs and 15 FFHs means we need more tankers IMHO.

Considering the Germans built the Berlin class in multiple modified versions many years apart, that could be an option for the RCN for additional hulls down the line. I would also keep an eye out for the potential of smaller, less capable but more numerous and cost efficient resupply vessels being procured to support the fleet and our allies.

The USN is looking at this exact concept with the Next Generation Logistics Ship program, so keep an eye out for that. Many Navies operate smaller resupply vessels or tenders for more local operations, this is something that benefits both Canada and also our NATO/foreign allies as well.

 

[Underway]

15 FFH

They aren't FFH, they are DDGH, and they are named correctly according to NATO naming conventions.

 

[Underway]

Submarine Tender(s) anyone?

The Berlin Class are used as submarine tenders for the German Navy. They can pump out oily bilges and blackwater into their own systems, treat it properly and release the treated water that meets enviro standards back into the ocean, allowing more space for the stuff that can't be treated to be stored.

PROTECTEUR Class has the exact same capability. So if you want sub tenders just build more PRO, and have them carry the "sub tender" package in their sea can storage area.

@Halifax Tar mention the above to your submariner buddy. I don't think that's well known in the fleet. Berlin Class are sub tenders for the Germans.

 

[Maxman1]

The Finnish Pohjanma class seems to fit the bill more and more. Armament, crew size, it even has some ice strengthening.

 

[Kirkhill]

The other thing....

107m, 7000 tonnes, 48/42/100-200 (Crew/Specialists/Supernumeraries)

Europe’s first drone carrier launched in Romania

It was designed to deploy aerial and naval drones rather than traditional crewed aircraft.

tvpworld.com

It had been designed primarily to deploy aerial, surface and underwater drones rather than traditional crewed aircraft.

“Given Portugal’s extensive coastline, this ship represents a valuable addition both for the Portuguese Navy and for European maritime operations,” said Bram Langeveld, Damen’s Chief Commercial Officer.

“It will support maritime security, scientific research, and disaster response.”

....

Built for about €132 million with European Union recovery funds, the ship is intended as a flexible drone hub able to switch mission profiles within days by swapping modular payloads.

....

NRP D. João II - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Greene]

The Finnish Pohjanma class seems to fit the bill more and more. Armament, crew size, it even has some ice strengthening.

I was thinking of the same ship. However, its range is listed as only about 3500 nm. Would it be feasible to increase the range, add our own CMS, etc? Or would we be better off starting from scratch with our own design?

 

[Lumber]

The other thing....

107m, 7000 tonnes, 48/42/100-200 (Crew/Specialists/Supernumeraries)

View attachment 99617

Europe’s first drone carrier launched in Romania

It was designed to deploy aerial and naval drones rather than traditional crewed aircraft.

tvpworld.com

It had been designed primarily to deploy aerial, surface and underwater drones rather than traditional crewed aircraft.

“Given Portugal’s extensive coastline, this ship represents a valuable addition both for the Portuguese Navy and for European maritime operations,” said Bram Langeveld, Damen’s Chief Commercial Officer.

“It will support maritime security, scientific research, and disaster response.”

....

Built for about €132 million with European Union recovery funds, the ship is intended as a flexible drone hub able to switch mission profiles within days by swapping modular payloads.

....

NRP D. João II - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

How in the f*** is that thing only $123M??? The cross connect gearbox on a CPF costs that much alone (ok not really, but still).

 

[Lumber]

@Underway - am I off base with the thought that these are more about not being outgunned by the likes of Ivan Papanin's and Icebreakers/Research Vessels/ Freighters with spicy seacans on board rather than something expected to join a TG for conventional peer conflict?

If what the rumour Underway said is valid, that they are expected to have the self-defence capability of a Halifax class, there's no reason it couldn't join a TG and be a valuable addition during a conventional peer conflict.

 

[Rainbow1910]

How in the f*** is that thing only $123M??? The cross connect gearbox on a CPF costs that much alone (ok not really, but still).

Because it's basically a small naval auxiliary designed to do non-combatant duties, that pricetag is likely not including much of the actual costs of the vessel as well.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

If what the rumour Underway said is valid, that they are expected to have the self-defence capability of a Halifax class, there's no reason it couldn't join a TG and be a valuable addition during a conventional peer conflict.

To that effect, see the French FDI frigates:

 

[IKnowNothing]

If what the rumour Underway said is valid, that they are expected to have the self-defence capability of a Halifax class, there's no reason it couldn't join a TG and be a valuable addition during a conventional peer conflict.

Perhaps I was reading too much into the specifics of the post, or my underlying premise is wrong.

Premise: the self defense (local air) capabilities of the CPF are at present the table stakes to not be a liability in a conventional peer setting - slightly better than neutral, the real value they bring is as an ASW asset

Reading in: the post expressly omitted both a tail and helo = this might have some baseline ASW capability, but its not a prime asw asset

Combined: can "look after itself" but isn't really bringing anything beyond that. Mission bay payload?

Happy to be educated

 

[Lumber]

Perhaps I was reading too much into the specifics of the post, or my underlying premise is wrong.

Premise: the self defense (local air) capabilities of the CPF are at present the table stakes to not be a liability in a conventional peer setting - slightly better than neutral, the real value they bring is as an ASW asset

Reading in: the post expressly omitted both a tail and helo = this might have some baseline ASW capability, but its not a prime asw asset

Combined: can "look after itself" but isn't really bringing anything beyond that. Mission bay payload?

Happy to be educated

A screening frigate can deter a submarine from attempting to penetrate the screen, even if the screening unit doesn't have the capability of detecting the submarine.

A screening frigate can control ASW helicopters and act as the command and control platform for the prosecution of a submarine (even if it doesn't have it's own organic helicopter).

A screening frigate can act as a close-in air defence unit of an HVU (Goalkeeper).

A screening frigate can cover the blind zones of more capable AAW units and provide long to medium range detection of air contacts.

A screening frigate can assist with defending the main body against drone (both air and surface) attacks.

A frigate can add additional weight of firepower in a bulldog engagement (surface to surface missiles).

 

[Kirkhill]

Because it's basically a small naval auxiliary designed to do non-combatant duties, that pricetag is likely not including much of the actual costs of the vessel as well.

It is a tin can for carrying UxVs and their operators. There are no armaments indicated in any of the literature. It would be an appropriate Cost Guard vessel if ice-hardened.

But that does kind of raise a question. Do our enemies know that our big red boats aren't targets?

 

[Halifax Tar]

They aren't FFH, they are DDGH, and they are named correctly according to NATO naming conventions.

You're absolutely correct. My bad. Too many FFH ballcaps have been on my head lol

 

[Furniture]

But that does kind of raise a question. Do our enemies know that our big red boats aren't targets?

In a war they are valid targets, that doesn't mean that we need to arm them and treat them like warships.