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Continental Defence Corvette

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Clean up the above deck area for radar obfuscation purposes, mount a RAM launcher where the phalanx is…couple of 30mm on the bridge wings. Turn the hangar into an Unmanned bar and workshop. Dandy, I’d say.
Need to get the crew numbers down, by how many I clearly don't know but we can't go forward with a dozen or more 220+ crewed GPF's - in addition to all the Rivers, Type 212CD's AOPV's, etc coming down the pipe.
 
You never get tired of being wrong on this topic, do you?

Lol

jeff bridges fgc GIF


So sensitive lol
 
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Need to get the crew numbers down, by how many I clearly don't know but we can't go forward with a dozen or more 220+ crewed GPF's - in addition to all the Rivers, Type 212CD's AOPV's, etc coming down the pipe.
For sure. There’s also berthing for 440’ 4700t ships. There’s the question of GT’s and diesels. Lots of ship for the envisioned role, maybe too much. But the flip side is a proven design that has stood the test of time. It’s a nice benchmark, but probably a bit overkill.
 
RCD program is still going on. They aren't cancelling it. However the replacement of the HFX by RCD may not meet the timeline. As such perhaps the CDC needs to be bulked up to help mitigate the delta. Or perhaps a Corvette is just to small with not enough endurance for our waters (more likely).

Thus CDC is getting re-evaluated.

As for Arctic Mobile Base, I never thought that was going to be a thing. But it was an idea that probably needed to be looked at, at a minimum to shut up some loud people who don't understand the arctic.
 
That is something neither of us are qualified to answer. Id suggest yes, you seem to suggest no. All I know is you still need armies to win wars and that our foreign policy is to be able to defend our NATO allies. At the end of the day, that means dudes killing people. We'll see what comes out in the next defence policy. Maybe that changes.
The only war we should be making 90% of our effort to fight is one that could happen here. And for that we need a much bigger part time army and an airforce that can lift a lot of equipment. Our defence policy of the past 75 years to first defend other countries is just not facing the reality of our … lol … dangerous and divided world.
 
You never get tired of being wrong on this topic, do you? There are more CA pers deployed at any given time right now or over the last couple decades than RCN or RCAF. Clearly the Government of Canada and DND patently disagree with you.
You know it’s possible to support a large army and actually have it at home to defend Canada instead acting as a trip wire to be quickly stomped into oblivion in another European war. And that goes for the Navy and the Air Force as well. People here at home are about to become very pissed about paying taxes and having services cut in order to witness to a defence budget grow to 100 billion + to defend Europe, and create more millionaire defence hub founders than actual soldiers anyway.
 
It's an interesting issue. I won't try to pretend. I lived through unification and it was a dog's breakfast; I'll never miss an opportunity to slag it. Reading John Conrad's recent book I came across this statement vis-a-vis the effects of unification on the army's logistics system.


IMHO, rather than merging three services into one, unification created one service with the requisite three "sub-services" but also created one overarching fourth sub-service which was the purple corporate structure. Not only does this corporate structure waste precious resources which ought to go to the field, but it consumes precious time by way of calcified bureaucratic processes. It would have been far better to leave the three services each with their own budget and left to their own devices to manage it within the directions given to each by the government. As it is, major capital decisions are retained by cabinet anyway. All the CAF manages are how to shuffle PYs around. Jointness in force employment existed long before unification/integration. IMHO, unification did not increase operational capabilities; it just added distant bureaucratic layers - and as Selkirk said - strategically devolved the purple trades to the lowest common denominator.

$0.02

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Hellyer wanted a Canadian Marine Corps with all arms.

He should have created the Expeditionary Force under the Navy, complete with its own army air force.

The defence of Canada force = the militia and the air force mirroring the national guard.

Two separate commands. Two separate budgets.
 
Yet most of the RCAF will be ReCapitilaized after 2034-35 so the RCN/CCG will drip, drip drip.

I can see future Fiscal stress giving us an RCN of 9 Rivers and 15 new Frigates but 6 will be CCG fitted for but not with
and 8 TKMS 212 CD's with a total of 3 AOR's. The 6/2 AOPS will compliment about 8 new Coastal defence vessels and about 20 FAAST-V .
Throw in the two Polar Ice Breakers and 6 12,000 tonne Program Icebreakers and add the 6 8.000 tonne Navaid 's leaves Canada with a serious afloat contribution.
RCN
9 Rivers
9 new Halifax GPF
6 new Halifax ( CCG LITE ARMED)
8 212 CD's Subs
8 Dewolfe/Donkjen AOPV
3 P class AOR's
8 New Kingston
20 FAAST-V
CCG
2 Polar I/B
6 Program I/B
6 Navaid I/B
10 Kingston CCG
95 Ship Security fleet

Where are your Uncrewed and Autonomous vessels?
 
You never get tired of being wrong on this topic, do you? There are more CA pers deployed at any given time right now or over the last couple decades than RCN or RCAF. Clearly the Government of Canada and DND patently disagree with you.
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You never get tired of being wrong on this topic, do you? There are more CA pers deployed at any given time right now or over the last couple decades than RCN or RCAF. Clearly the Government of Canada and DND patently disagree with you.
What effect do they bring?

Each CPF carries it's own long range strike(Harpoon), AD(ESSM, CWIS, 57mm), ESW, ISR, as well as the naval capabilities the CA lacks like ASW... So for about 250 sailors, the GoC gets a lot of bang for their PY buck.

Comparing personnel numbers is ridiculous to the point of making your argument look clownish. Be better.
 
A common North Atlantic frigate? The Iver Huitfeld -Type 31 - Common Command Vessel

 
Where are your Uncrewed and Autonomous vessels?


"From the bridge of HMS Prince of Wales in Oslo I piloted a Ukrainian Magura drone more than 2,000 miles away.

"The Magura family of uncrewed vessels has proved effective against Russian naval targets."

....

"One word I kept hearing was "interchangeability".

""Interoperability" is a familiar word in defence circles - allies working together.

""Interchangeability" takes it a step further, with allies taking over each others' tasks and using shared assets."

Interchangeable.

...

1794629336184.png

 
Should we just dust off the plans for the Halifax Class and build a few new hulls using the old plans?

Back in 2006 I was working on a project that took me to Libraries and Archives Canada's warehouse in Halifax. They showed me the very large format computer discs for the Halifax frigate which was basically designed on computer (or so I was told). The problem was that the tapes were disintegrating and there was no longer a computer system that could run them anyways. It's now twenty years later. I expect they have long passed the point of any useability. Good luck finding any useable plans to dust off.

Hellyer wanted a Canadian Marine Corps with all arms.

He should have created the Expeditionary Force under the Navy, complete with its own army air force.

The defence of Canada force = the militia and the air force mirroring the national guard.

Two separate commands. Two separate budgets.

One stupid concept.

🍻
 
One stupid concept.

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Hellyer fundamentally misunderstood how much that a culture developed over hundreds of years will entrench an institution.
His other crime was dropping the unification stinkbomb and then walking away to transport. Compounding the bush fire was a Trudeau government that did nothing to fix the issue and likely were happy that no one else in Canada cared.
 
And the "d" measuring continues. Why we continually try to pound that square Purple peg into a round Green/Blue/Dark Blue hole. Each environment have their unique needs and processes and to try to force that sort of change that clearly isn't working very well is just a sign of insanity.
Question - Do any of our 5 eye partners have the same sort of logistic set up?
I'm not the one that suggested an L1 was irrelevant. There's value in having all 4 elements with sufficient resources and equipment to do their jobs domestically and abroad. The constant victim culture of RCN trying to claim big bad Army is taking all their money is tiresome.
 
I'm not the one that suggested an L1 was irrelevant. There's value in having all 4 elements with sufficient resources and equipment to do their jobs domestically and abroad. The constant victim culture of RCN trying to claim big bad Army is taking all their money is tiresome.

100% this.
What I don’t understand is why the government falls for it.
 
I would argue every ship mentioned will carry SOME autonomous capability and maybe less manned helicopters

I would suggest that the ships will be operating in an environment rich in autonomous platforms, in all domains, carrying sensors and effectors.

The ships will not be the sole deployers of systems. The oceans will be littered with small craft ranging in size from sonobuoys and torpedos to target drones, surfboards and motor launches. Nobody overly bothered about their loss due to their low cost. The speed of innovation will mean that any systems captured by the opposition are going to be stale-dated in any event.

Some systems have life expectancies of months and self deploy over thousands of kilometers. Others can be rapidly delivered over long distances by air.

You are not alone.
 
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