• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Continental Defence Corvette

Add to that a fundamentally flawed "command" structure and the Liberals failure to stop the decline of defence spending.

The post Korea period had been a time of major spending but even before Hellyer real dollar spending had been flat and spending as a % of GDP had been dropping like a rock.

In the decade after Hellyer spending in real terms went up from around ~$1.8 billion to ~$4.0 billion but dropped as a % of GDP from ~2.5% to ~1.7% while the annual consumer price index was ranging from ~4% to ~10%. Visibly the period showed the loss of many defence outputs in both deployable units and equipment for all three services while new headquarters proliferated.

Like many things, the issue is spread between a bad idea and bad execution of the idea. It was one thing to leave army aviation with the army and naval air and aviation with the navy (after all that's where they were before unification), but who thought it made sense to give CF-5s to the army (Mobile Command's 10 TAG)? Or that all military training systems run under one "Training Command?"

I've always found this article by LGen Bill Carr to be interesting - not so much for what it says but the tone for how it is said and the squabbles that it reflects on.

🍻
At least with training command, recruiting was aligned with coursing and there was very little standing around on PAT…
 
At least with training command, recruiting was aligned with coursing and there was very little standing around on PAT…
The CAF's day to day role is readiness.

The hollowing out of the training system to provide a bare minimum if successful at 100% runs counter to readiness.
 
I'm not the one that suggested an L1 was irrelevant. There's value in having all 4 elements with sufficient resources and equipment to do their jobs domestically and abroad. The constant victim culture of RCN trying to claim big bad Army is taking all their money is tiresome.
How long does it take to acquire, maintain and recapitalizing tanks, trucks, APCs, or to purchase a pistol? Vice acquiring, maintaining, and recapitalizing a fleet of warships? The magnitude and need for stable funding is much greater. That our procurement system is so broken that we cannot seem to purchase Army equipment at a more appropriate speed and cost is not the fault of the RCN.
 
Idk, I think Gen Rouleau knows a thing or two about warfighting and when he says this unsustainable for the Army and Air Force, Ill take his word for it.
 
At least with training command, recruiting was aligned with coursing and there was very little standing around on PAT…
That's very true. Recruiting was a minor issue in those days. The bigger one was how to remuster all those folks who were made redundant in their prior trades or classifications by force reductions. The arty didn't see new recruits (or promotions amongst NCMs) for the better part of a half a decade until air defence became a thing again. The 3rd had a whole battery - about 150 folks - who were kept around for about a year until they could be placed on courses elsewhere. They weren't on an equivalent of PAT. We made good use of them while we had them. Ammo was cheap and plentiful as we fired off 105mm war stocks.

For the life of me I do not understand the current recruiting and throughput issues. I'm too far away from things to know what is going on but I'm left with the suspicion that the system is rife with self-inflicted wounds.

🍻
 
I'm not the one that suggested an L1 was irrelevant. There's value in having all 4 elements with sufficient resources and equipment to do their jobs domestically and abroad. The constant victim culture of RCN trying to claim big bad Army is taking all their money is tiresome.

Not irrelevant, just a different mission.

Also just for accuracy, what sparked your little tantrum was my response to an Army dudes claim the RCN was taking all his money.

I would encourage you to look in your mirror.
 
Back in 2006 I was working on a project that took me to Libraries and Archives Canada's warehouse in Halifax. They showed me the very large format computer discs for the Halifax frigate which was basically designed on computer (or so I was told). The problem was that the tapes were disintegrating and there was no longer a computer system that could run them anyways. It's now twenty years later. I expect they have long passed the point of any useability. Good luck finding any useable plans to dust off.



One stupid concept.

🍻
I can literally pull up all the plumbing wiring, engineering plant, electrical plant and structural plans for the CPF off of SharePoint. Some of them are now interactive.
 
I can literally pull up all the plumbing wiring, engineering plant, electrical plant and structural plans for the CPF off of SharePoint. Some of them are now interactive.

The ICT for PRO class is pretty cool.

Basically an FPS with out the S.

Any news on if we are doing KYSBs for them ?
 
Idk, I think Gen Rouleau knows a thing or two about warfighting and when he says this unsustainable for the Army and Air Force, Ill take his word for it.
We had an opportunity in the late 1990`s when HMCS Ottawa was leaving Saint John Shipyard. We had a worked up shipyard and workforce, and a requirement for a massive recapitalization of the entire GoC fleet (CCG, DFO, RCN). A forward looking DND would have said, "We've invested billions in this project, this cannot go to waste"
But we didn't and here we are today, rebuilding a shipbuilding industry for the 5th time.
 
For the life of me I do not understand the current recruiting and throughput issues. I'm too far away from things to know what is going on but I'm left with the suspicion that the system is rife with self-inflicted wounds.

🍻

From my stand point it's processing of Sec Clearances and a lack of instructors and infrastructure for trades training.

But I get them at that end of their entry process.
 
We had an opportunity in the late 1990`s when HMCS Ottawa was leaving Saint John Shipyard. We had a worked up shipyard and workforce, and a requirement for a massive recapitalization of the entire GoC fleet (CCG, DFO, RCN). A forward looking DND would have said, "We've invested billions in this project, this cannot go to waste"
But we didn't and here we are today, rebuilding a shipbuilding industry for the 5th time.
The government was broke at that time. Chrétien slashed budgets and downloaded some services/costs to the provinces. In Ontario, Mike Harris then downloaded some costs onto municipalities. Trickledown economics?
 
The government was broke at that time. Chrétien slashed budgets and downloaded some services/costs to the provinces. In Ontario, Mike Harris then downloaded some costs onto municipalities. Trickledown economics?
By 1997, federal finances had turned the corner. Building a Coast Guard or Naval Ship every 12-18 months was totally possible.
 
By 1997, federal finances had turned the corner. Building a Coast Guard or Naval Ship every 12-18 months was totally possible.
Pro/Pre/280's,/Louis St Laurent/DFO fleet were all approaching 30 years of age (LStL was likely closer to 50) at the turn of the century. The work was there, I just don't think there was any plans in the hopper to start the build. Once again, a forward looking DND would of been working on plans while the frigates were being built.
But.......we didn't.

Oh, I remember Ron Buck on the flight deck of Protecteur, Feb of 2000, in Dili Harbour saying (new AOR) "Hulls in the water in 5 years lads!!!!" But I think the Big Cod was CDS and he was touting ALSC and it all went to shit...............
 
Pro/Pre/280's,/Louis St Laurent/DFO fleet were all approaching 30 years of age (LStL was likely closer to 50) at the turn of the century. The work was there, I just don't think there was any plans in the hopper to start the build. Once again, a forward looking DND would of been working on plans while the frigates were being built.
But.......we didn't.

Oh, I remember Ron Buck on the flight deck of Protecteur, Feb of 2000, in Dili Harbour saying (new AOR) "Hulls in the water in 5 years lads!!!!" But I think the Big Cod was CDS and he was touting ALSC and it all went to shit...............
Capt(N) Ron Lloyd was appointed Director, Naval Requirements, and announced to the staff that steel would be cut for the frigate replacements before he left that job.

Plot twist: Dan Ackroyd was not, in fact, correct.
 
Capt(N) Ron Lloyd was appointed Director, Naval Requirements, and announced to the staff that steel would be cut for the frigate replacements before he left that job.

Plot twist: Dan Ackroyd was not, in fact, correct.
Officers should just keep such thoughts to themselves!
 
By 2000, federal finances had turned the corner. Building a Coast Guard or Naval Ship every 12-18 months was totally possible.
FIFY. In 1997, the finances were trending in the right direction but debt/gdp ratio was still astronomical at 74.9 %. Unfortunately in 2000, is when operations wound down at St John, that would’ve been the best time to build another 6 ships as originally planned. A grave mistake in my humble opinion.
 
FIFY. In 1997, the finances were trending in the right direction but debt/gdp ratio was still astronomical at 74.9 %. Unfortunately in 2000, is when operations wound down at St John, that would’ve been the best time to build another 6 ships as originally planned. A grave mistake in my humble opinion.

75% was astronomical enough to prevent arming ourselves?

What does that say about today's 115%?


Scroll to the bottom.
 
We had an opportunity in the late 1990`s when HMCS Ottawa was leaving Saint John Shipyard. We had a worked up shipyard and workforce, and a requirement for a massive recapitalization of the entire GoC fleet (CCG, DFO, RCN). A forward looking DND would have said, "We've invested billions in this project, this cannot go to waste"
But we didn't and here we are today, rebuilding a shipbuilding industry for the 5th time.
To be fair that is a political level eff up. That is if the RCN did their job and laid out a detailed reason to said political type, why they needed to go with this idea. If they didn't, then it falls back onto the RCN brass.
 
Back
Top