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Copyright on Unit Crests?

  • Thread starter Thread starter heatsink
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heatsink

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Hello everyone,

I'm trying to figure out if unit crests are copyrighted at all. I've looked all over the Internet and had no luck finding this info, even the CF website turns up nothing but actual crests on a search.

I'm retired RegF navy and prior militia and am thinking of opening up a little CF kit shop on my already existing t-shirt, mug, bag, hat type shop but obviously I don't want to get in crap for copyright infringement.

I'm pretty sure the American unit's crests are not copyrighted because I've seen US shinies all over the net with unit crests on them.

Any ideas where to look for this info?

Thanks!

Jon
 
We've had a discussion on this a couple of months ago.  In these links we talked about that and similar matters:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/29089.0.html

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23431.0.html

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21557.0.html

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/22097.0.html

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/17942.0.html

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/3015.0.html

All thoses posts cover copyright of photos and Unit badges.  You may have to read through a bit to find what you want.

In most cases you will find that Unit Crests are 'copyrighted' by the unit, and a simple request to that Unit may suffice in any reproductions you desire to carry out.  In many cases, all they want is that their 'property' is properly credited.
 
In the specific instance of works that are not your own, or incorporate Intellectual Property that is not your own [such as copyright or trademarks]   you must be very, very careful. If you are going to commercially exploit copyright which belongs to another person, including HMQ, you need permission and an assignment of copyright. For most crown copyright, no big deal. Be very careful of infringing trademarks as well- there are specific protections for unit badges, flags, slogans, armorials etc.

PM me if you need more assistance. Good luck with your business, and congratulations on your retirement!
 
Just anectdotal here, but a hotel in Calgary had a symbol off Crowchild trail not far different from Lady Patricia's Cypher.... seems the VP overlay was quickly removed.  Be careful of those Patricia trademarks!  (Especially if you're not 'donating' to 'the fund') lol.
 
All badges, crests, logos of any unit name or title are owned by the government of Canada or you could also say the Crown and are administered by the local unit or CO of said unit. Because of the big demand as a tourist item the Crown has the same company that protects the rights of Disney products also take care of the RCMP products sold every where in Canada and it protects this right vigorously.

The main problem is that at this time the Crown has not gone after anyone who is breaching this copyright for many military units as what was in the press recently about the JTF2 items sold on the web. The JTF2 has never authorized anyone to manufacture any items you see on the web, so anything you see is a fake. Or units that have been disbanded like the Canadian Airborne Regiment, almost 99% of all the items on the web are fake and not authorized.

I have not heard of anyone getting permission to manufacture or make items with said crests or logos of military units. But you can get permission from the units, I know many units would appreciate having a kit shop if they do not have one already, I know the RCR, PPCLI and the R22R have great kit shops as well the Canadian Airborne Regiment still has a kit shop run by an ex-member and has permission of the Association Association. But if you started by offering your services I am sure some units would love to have the opportunity to purchase some items, it will just take research and time.

But if you do it illegally you risk someone keeping the information about you on file and if the government ever decided to pursue you and you did not have permission. You could be pursued in the courts and they could come up with an average of what profits you made in the last year or decade and not only would you have to pay fines, you would also have to pay back the profits to the Crown.
 
Chop said:
All badges, crests, logos of any unit name or title are owned by the government of Canada or you could also say the Crown and are administered by the local unit or CO of said unit. Because of the big demand as a tourist item the Crown has the same company that protects the rights of Disney products also take care of the RCMP products sold every where in Canada and it protects this right vigorously.

Disney is the company that the RCMP hired a few years ago to do their marketing and merchandizing.  The CF did not follow suit.  To the best of my knowledge, the RCMP did not renew their contract with Disney, and are once again handling their own promotional materials. 

As has been mentioned, most Units hold their copyrights, or their Regimental Associations or Guilds do.  Whiskey601 has a legal background and can best answer you more technical questions.
 
All of the following pertains to commercial exploitation of Crown Copyright and Trademark:

The "units" cannot own anything because they exist at the discretion of the Crown. All of their rights and responsibilities are assigned by the Crown, subject to reservation and extinguishment.

If the Crown extinguishes [disbands or pays off] the unit, who has the remaining interest? The IP doesn't dissappear with the unit, thus the full ownership always resides with the Crown and the unit merely uses the IP assigned to it. Take, for example, any copyright or trademark pertaining to HMCS Huron. The ship is now [or soon to be] paid off and is no longer a functional unit. In   6 months or so, anybody wishing to use IP from Huron would need permission of the Crown, probably through DND or PWGSC.

Permission to use crown copyright in military items is obtained all the time. It is as often obtained from PWGSC as it is from DND. Depends on the nature of the IP. Take for example a civvie photograph of a CF 18 with a squadron emblem on it. While the picture may be one of something serialized by PWGSC, the part of the picture which captures the emblem is a substantial reproduction of an artistic work in which Crown/DND copyright exists because the emblem was done at the direction of the government department. The Copyright Act speaks only of the "Crown" or "government department" which authorized the work, not the individual unit. Thus, DND owns the copyright in the emblem. The NDA may say something else, but that is irrelevant in so far as it crosses paths with the Copyright Act or other IP statutes. Those IP statutes always govern when they conflict with other statutes unless 2 conditions precedent exist: the IP staute must create an exemption for the conflicting statute, and the conflicting statute must expressly state that certain provisions of the IP statute are to be excluded from application within the enabling statute. This is very rare, and I see little evidence of this in any IP statutes in Canada, with the exception of MND weapons, munitions and equipment patents.

Many government photographs contain reproductions of individual unit works, such as artistic works [i.e. a cap badge] and trade mark works [i.e. a unit crest]. These are items in which IP exists independently yet is embedded into the photograph.There is absolutely no legal requirement to obtain permission from the unit whose cap badge or emblem appears, even though the photgragh constitutes a reproduction of the works captured in the photogragh or image. Ultimately permission must come from the Crown or its designates. Permission might conceiveably come from the unit on behalf of the Crown, but any unit doing so acts only on the explicit assignment of such a right by the Crown, and even that depends on the specific use of the photograph.

At law, the CO of a unit has no authority to grant to a unit association any IP rights unless that specific right is assigned to the unit which the CO commands- in which case he/she does so on behalf of and under the legal authority of the Crown. To grant such permission to the CO would make the legal management of IP rights subject to the CoC, perhaps even as it devolves tothe subordiante level- if this is going on, it would be improper, and perhaps illegal, IMHO.

Clear as mud?    
   
 
Thanks all around for all the good info. My apologies for not uncovering the previous threads dealing with this.

My intent is to pursue the idea for units that don't have a kit shop currently running (which may turn out to be mostly reserve units - not sure yet). I guess the general idea is that the copyright seems to belong to the unit, or at least the unit has the permission to let me create stuff for them. I need a print ready graphic to pursue this anyhow and I think the only place I'm likely to find such a beast is from the unit itself. Therefore pursuing this without the unit's permission isn't going to go well even if it isn't illegal :)

I'll ping this off Whiskey to be sure, since he seems to be the local expert.

If the following is commercial, I apologize:

If anyone out there wants to put in a vote for their unit to be first (assuming this all pans out), I'll be happy to start with that unit. I can probably provide samples within Calgary, but every item has a 30 day money back guarantee anyhow. For more details on what I can offer perhaps PMing me or emailing me at heatsink [at] theheatsinkbbs [dot] ca might be more appropriate.

Thanks!


Edit: Yikes - just read Whiskey's post above. Clear as mud indeed....
 
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