Cpl. Felix Ngoviky Facing Court Martial- Toronto Sun Article

[dapaterson]

Just curious:

Once the trial happens and everything is done, do the court documents and proceedings get released to the public? I know that's the case in civilian court for the most part.

Website for the Chief Military Judge posts results and sentences, together with transcripts of the sentencing.  Full transcripts are available via ATI requests.

Another fun place to watch ithe CMAC - Court Martial Appeal Court.  Always makes for interesting reading.

 

[OldSolduer]

This topic piqued my interest in the CMJ website.

The results etc are posted, and it makes for interesting reading. There is so much that could have been handled at a lower level than having the charges go to CM.

 

[ModlrMike]

A former Sgt-Maj of mine once told me:

If you're guilty as sin, and likely to be found such, then take the Summary Trial. If you're innocent, but likely to be found guilty, take the CM. The rationale being that the Summary Trial only has so many punishments, and the CM is a real trial with evidence etc and you can appeal the verdict.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

a court martial for being rude to an NCM . . .  that used to be settled with a "march the guilty ******* in", a one way discussion with the Company Co and a whole lotta extra duties and attention from the RSM.

I think those days are long gone...  :'(

 

[GAP]

I think those days are long gone...  :'(

Not true. My youngest and a couple of his buds got their tail into a sling over something relatively minor. Given the option of dealing it through the Sgt. or allowing it to become formal, he opted for the Sgt.. He got weekend duty, and a couple of minor duties, his buds, figuring they would get off easy had to pay $500 each........

 

[CombatDoc]

This topic piqued my interest in the CMJ website.

The results etc are posted, and it makes for interesting reading. There is so much that could have been handled at a lower level than having the charges go to CM.

Don't forget that for most charges (except the minor 5) that the accused has the option to elect ST or CM, so it is quite possible that these CMs reflect the military justice process desired by the accused.

 

[medicineman]

I think he figures the PTSD Dx will be his defense - fact is though, you are still responsible for your actions, whether you have PTSD, alcoholism or other drug dependancy, etc.  Unless he was florridly psychotic (and can prove it), he made a conscious decision to be a dickhead and now has to face the consequences for that action.

Watch and shoot as it were.

MM

 

[OldSolduer]

I think he figures the PTSD Dx will be his defense - fact is though, you are still responsible for your actions, whether you have PTSD, alcoholism or other drug dependancy, etc.  Unless he was florridly psychotic (and can prove it), he made a conscious decision to be a fool and now has to face the consequences for that action.

Watch and shoot as it were.

MM

Read some sentencing transcripts of soldiers that were Court Martialed recently. It's clear they were suffering from an OSI, but were held accountable for their actions. The OSI was a mitigating factor.

 

[medicineman]

Thanks for that Jim. 

MM

 

[PMedMoe]

14 Dec 10 R. v. Cpl Ngoviky CFB Petawawa, Building L106, Petawawa, ON
Charge 1 (alternate to charge 3): S. 83 NDA, disobeyed a lawful command of a superior officer.
Charge 2: S. 85 NDA, behaved with contempt toward a superior officer.
Charge 3 (alternate to charge 1): S. 129 NDA, conduct to the prejudice of good order and discipline.

FINDINGS: Charges 1, 2: Guilty. Charge 3: A stay of proceedings.

SENTENCE: A reprimand and a fine in the amount of $500.

As seen here.

 

[OldSolduer]

14 Dec 10 R. v. Cpl Ngoviky CFB Petawawa, Building L106, Petawawa, ON
Charge 1 (alternate to charge 3): S. 83 NDA, disobeyed a lawful command of a superior officer.
Charge 2: S. 85 NDA, behaved with contempt toward a superior officer.
Charge 3 (alternate to charge 1): S. 129 NDA, conduct to the prejudice of good order and discipline.

FINDINGS: Charges 1, 2: Guilty. Charge 3: A stay of proceedings.

SENTENCE: A reprimand and a fine in the amount of $500.

As seen here.

The written decision should be out shortly. I'd be interested in seeing the court transcript of the trial itself.

 

[Privateer]

It's unlikely that a transcript would be prepared, unless an appeal were taken from the order.

 

[Old Sweat]

It seems to me that considering the NDA items that were used for the charges, the court displayed remarkable leniency in sentencing.

 

[OldSolduer]

It's unlikely that a transcript would be prepared, unless an appeal were taken from the order.

That's fine, I'd like to find out why this progressed to a CM?

 

[Strike]

It's even more unlikely that they will release the transcripts beyond sentencing at all.  They started to shy away from it after questions regarding the Privacy Act came about.

 

[OldSolduer]

It seems to me that considering the NDA items that were used for the charges, the court displayed remarkable leniency in sentencing.

I was quite surprised when I read some of the CM decisions and sentencing. It does make interesting reading.

 

[garb811]

It's even more unlikely that they will release the transcripts beyond sentencing at all.  They started to shy away from it after questions regarding the Privacy Act came about.

Where do you get that idea from??  Unless ordered otherwise by the Military Judge, CMs are open to the public, all testimony and evidence entered therein is a matter of public record.  There is no issue with the Privacy Act.  Even if the CM is closed or the transcript sealed, the transcript is produced, it is just not released to the public but it is retained and made available for research and case law reference purposes.

 

[Strike]

Where do you get that idea from??  Unless ordered otherwise by the Military Judge, CMs are open to the public, all testimony and evidence entered therein is a matter of public record.  There is no issue with the Privacy Act.  Even if the CM is closed or the transcript sealed, the transcript is produced, it is just not released to the public but it is retained and made available for research and case law reference purposes.

Just paraphrasing what a JAG LCol and Maj told my class a few weeks ago.  Open to members of the CF does not always equate to open to the public, especially if some of those CM were held on bases that don't have an open door policy.  The question was then raised, "Why do those guys essentially get a closed (to the civilian public) CM proceeding and I don't?"

Doesn't men people can't get the transcripts through ATI.

Edited to add: Okay, it may have been more than a few weeks ago.  I have lost all track of time.  I WILL tell you it was in the past 3 months.

 

[garb811]

Seen but for the purposes of a CM "open to the public" simply means that persons can attend as spectators should they wish, it has no bearing on where the actual venue is and if non-CF members can actually access the venue.

And it has just dawned on me that folks are talking about the CMJ Internet site.  Check the CMJ DWAN site for complete transcripts of most CMs.  There's a link to the CMJ site from the National portal.

Jim:  Unfortunately you won't find your answer as to why this proceeded to CM in any of the transcripts as that is usually not brought up at the CM.  You'd need to get access to the RDP if you want to try to figure out the why of that.

 

[medicineman]

That's fine, I'd like to find out why this progressed to a CM?

I'm with Jim on this - aren't disobeying a lawful command and insubordination normally tried at a Summary Trial level vice CM?  Maybe I just fell asleep again in my Mil Law OPME class?

MM