CRCN Message on the Steward Occupation Town Hall (Steward trade elimination)

[FSTO]

You cant self serve from the feed line, I know I know we've all done it. There will be a cook or scullery there to slap portions on plates.

The big change for feeding will be in the Wardroom where they will go from table service to a feed line. Which a CPF wardroom wasn't built for. I expect some teething pains here.

And I expect the CO will continue to have some sort or personal service, be it an assigned cook or otherwise.

I see a future of a mishmash of attempts that result in total dissatisfaction for all followed by ham fisted solutions that result in someone screaming “STOP! Didn’t there used to be a trade that did all the things that we are screwing up now? What were they called?”

 

[Halifax Tar]

@SeaKingTacco see above. Any time I've been in the JRs or the C&POs Mess, there are scullery in the meal line serving.

I remember when this whole idea of getting rid of stewards was first pitched, one COA was to amalgamate them with Boatswains. I remember the Boatswains complaining about "serving food" saying none of them signed up to do that.

Another big problem will be who sets aside food for watchkeepers or does the Kitchen have to put on more meals? I often had food wrapped up and left for me to eat later because my watch schedule doesn't permit me to make feeding times.

I am interested to see how they tackle this.

It was call the Deck Operations trade.

Some of it came to fruition like flags and lights going to the Boatswains.

Its just my personal opinion that was another move by one trade to take over other(s) to bolster its flagging numbers and really artifically shore up its recruiting and retention problem.

Another knock on to this is the impact on POOW rotation. Normally the PO1 and PO2 STW are used during specials ect ect in the POOW role to free up the deck dept and give a better rotation. I can see this falling on Log Dept PO1 and PO2s now. But its been crickets on this so far.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I see a future of a mishmash of attempts that result in total dissatisfaction for all followed by ham fisted solutions that result in someone screaming “STOP! Didn’t there used to be a trade that did all the things that we are screwing up now? What were they called?”

I am cynical enough that anyone says there is "a plan" in the CAF, I am half expecting them to whip out an old cigarette pack with a crayon and show me a stick figure drawing they did under red light the night before.

It was call the Deck Operations trade.

Some of it came to fruition like flags and lights going to the Boatswains.

Something else that also made no sense. Navcomms are already bad enough at their PCF, lets make them worse . The next move will be to make Officers (aka subbies) do all the tac signals and resultant orders.

Its just my personal opinion that was another move by one trade to take over other(s) to bolster its flagging numbers and really artifically shore up its recruiting and retention problem.
Another knock on to this is the impact on POOW rotation.

POOW, a position that actually has an operational function and is very important, can apparently be done by anybody now . Hopefully no actual requirement of the rescue boat is needed

 

[Halifax Tar]

I see a future of a mishmash of attempts that result in total dissatisfaction for all followed by ham fisted solutions that result in someone screaming “STOP! Didn’t there used to be a trade that did all the things that we are screwing up now? What were they called?”

I don't think so. We have trades on board who can look after things like NPF and Canteen management. There will be a learning curve but I don't expect much consternation.

Food service, well the wardroom will have to adapt. The rest of us already do this.

Laundry service already is essentially run by Supply even though it actually belongs to the PO1 STW.

One area that we may see a decline in quality in is cocktail parties, but if that's the big hit, then its actually pretty minor.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I am cynical enough that anyone says there is "a plan" in the CAF, I am half expecting them to whip out an old cigarette pack with a crayon and show me a stick figure drawing they did under red light the night before.


Something else that also made no sense. Navcomms are already bad enough at their PCF, lets make them worse . The next move will be to make Officers (aka subbies) do all the tac signals and resultant orders.

POOW, a position that actually has an operational function and is very important, can apparently be done by anybody now . Hopefully no actual requirement of the rescue boat is needed

If a ship goes to rescue stations the non boatswain POOW is quickly augmented by a qualified boatswain.

Also, Ive seen CSE, Ops and Log all be put in the POOW rotation over the years. Its essentially Duty Coxn at sea.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I don't think so. We have trades on board who can look after things like NPF and Canteen management. There will be a learning curve but I don't expect much consternation.

Food service, well the wardroom will have to adapt. The rest of us already do this.

The only people in the Wardroom it will really affect are Aircrew, Watchkeepers and the OROs. All of whom are already used to getting screwed by everyone else in there, so situation no change

 

[Halifax Tar]

The only people in the Wardroom it will really affect are Aircrew, Watchkeepers and the OROs. All of whom are already used to getting screwed by everyone else in there, so situation no change

No reason the galley cant keep some warm plates aside. It already runs 24/7 underway.

 

[Navy_Pete]

You cant self serve from the feed line, I know I know we've all done it. There will be a cook or scullery there to slap portions on plates.

The big change for feeding will be in the Wardroom where they will go from table service to a feed line. Which a CPF wardroom wasn't built for. I expect some teething pains here.

And I expect the CO will continue to have some sort or personal service, be it an assigned cook or otherwise.

I don't think the feed line in the wardroom is a big deal, but people that think all the stewards do is pamper the officers and do cocktail parties is part of the issue.

What I'm concerned about is the actual operational impacts for things like who is going to do the extra scullery jobs (like food prep etc), who is getting the first aid training and will be part of casualty clearing etc. When the fire detection system goes down, who is going to do DC rounds? POOW and SSDs are both good examples of cases where stewards and other folks in the log dept have a bit more flexibility to jump in, and boarding party, divers etc are other good secondary duties that come to mind.

What a shitshow.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

No reason the galley cant keep some warm plates aside. It already runs 24/7 underway.

The real question, as with everything in the Navy:

Who is organizing it?

I know you would do a bang up job, but you're also logistics so are used to actually having to organize these things. I can honestly picture it being ak afterthought in most people's minds.

Just like everything else that becomes a secondary duty.... public affairs, boarding party, dive team, etc.

 

[Kilted]

Will the Occupational Transfer in this case see people dropped in rank like other occupational transfers?

 

[Halifax Tar]

I don't think the feed line in the wardroom is a big deal, but people that think all the stewards do is pamper the officers and do cocktail parties is part of the issue.

What I'm concerned about is the actual operational impacts for things like who is going to do the extra scullery jobs (like food prep etc), who is getting the first aid training and will be part of casualty clearing etc. When the fire detection system goes down, who is going to do DC rounds? POOW and SSDs are both good examples of cases where stewards and other folks in the log dept have a bit more flexibility to jump in, and boarding party, divers etc are other good secondary duties that come to mind.

What a shitshow.

There is 4 other trades in the Log Dept that already do CCT, Boarding Party, Diver ect ect ect.

HQ1/DC rounds aren't a thing anymore.

POOW can be picked up by other Log POs; and SSDs is already done by all the Log Trades as well.

This wasn't a quick decision, this has been coming for close to a decade. And the division of labor has been investigated. Watch and shoot.

The real question, as with everything in the Navy:

Who is organizing it?

I know you would do a bang up job, but you're also logistics so are used to actually having to organize these things. I can honestly picture it being ak afterthought in most people's minds.

Just like everything else that becomes a secondary duty.... public affairs, boarding party, dive team, etc.

I just see it as a little communication from the operator to the galley.

Will the Occupational Transfer in this case see people dropped in rank like other occupational transfers?

My understanding is they will be able to keep their pay levels but they will lose rank. I stand to be corrected though.

 

[dapaterson]

Will the Occupational Transfer in this case see people dropped in rank like other occupational transfers?

No*. That applies only to Voluntary Occupational Transfers (VOT).

The reason for the *: Members undergoing a Compulsory Occupational Transfer are pay protected, but are reduced in rank. So yes, it's a reduction, but no, it does not impact pay. It may impact allowances.

See: Chapter 204 - Pay of Officers & Non-Commissioned Members - Canada.ca

 

[Navy_Pete]

HQ1/DC rounds aren't a thing anymore.

That was based on IPMS being fully functional, but is still a mitigation for when there are issues. It does happen (and should probably be in place more frequently on ships reactivating after DWP).

 

[Halifax Tar]

That was based on IPMS being fully functional, but is still a mitigation for when there are issues. It does happen (and should probably be in place more frequently on ships reactivating after DWP).

I haven't seen a HQ1/DC Roundsman or Watchkeeper since I came back to the RCN in 2015/16.

The console doesn't even exist anymore for the watchkeeper.

The one exception is during SSDs when the MARTECHs stand up the roundsman.

 

[OldSolduer]

Just a question from a crayon eating infantry type:

Why was the trade retired?

 

[Navy_Pete]

Just a question from a crayon eating infantry type:

Why was the trade retired?

TLR RCN is big on self goals and unforced errors.

One of the healthier trades, no major issues related to equipment or training....it's been under discussion for years but seems more of a pet project for someone.

People talk about them like they are doing some kind of batmen roll, when they do a lot of basic food prep type things that someone else will have to do, plus form a large part of the casualty clearing. The ships were designed to have people doing those functions, and has about 3 times the crews as AOPs in less space, so something that works on AOPs won't translate over directly.

Can probably add more cooks, get other people to take over some of the other things, and add more supply techs (to do non-supply tech things). But we seem to be going from something that was working into a period of uncertainty for how that will work going forward.

There are a few major trades that are completely foxed at the moment that need overhauled, so this will eat up a lot of the same bandwidth in the same organizations that should be focusing on that.

A lack of stewards has yet to stop a ship from going to sea, but a lot of other trades will, and there are shortage messages going out all the time for a whack of other qualifications.

Converting running of the messes and similar into civilian positions would have been an option without killing the trade.

If they thought retention was bad before, curious how making additional people do scullery and other roles the stewards do full time as a primary job instead of actual employment in their trade is supposed to help.

 

[Jarnhamar]

How many Canadian ships are out sailing on average?

 

[brihard]

Whatever solution is arrived at for the meal lines, in the interest of developing Joint competencies, each deployed ship should have a slightly overweight RCR WO with two ex wives embarked. That WO’s job - sole job - will be to be the last guy at the meal line, and slam a serving spoon full of baked beans on top of as much of the rest of your food as he can get, whether you want them or not, at least two meals out of each day. He’s to ask each person something along the lines of “having fun yet?”, “when did you last change your socks?” or “aren’t you glad you aren’t in Wainwright?” He won’t hear your answer.

 

[dapaterson]

Why are the two ex wives required to be embarked?

 

[Weinie]

Why are the two ex wives required to be embarked?

Gotta keep that media glutton fed.