CSOR Support Jobs

[danteh]

I was forced to change trades due to injury and at that time I was looking at either going AC Op or Fire Fighter. Chose Fire Fighter. Did my course, spent time in a hall and relized that in less than two years my trade would most likely be disbanded and contracted out to civis because of a complete lack of personnel so I was looking for a different one so I'm not wasting my time at a job that will get me no where in two years but having me change trades anyways. Has nothing to do with making up my mind.

And George Wallace you obviously didn't read through this thread as well as you obviously thought you had. No where in this thread did I mention wanting to be JTF-2 Support. So you can cross that one off your list. I had only wanted to go MP but I couldn't due to restrictions leaving SAR Tech or CANSOFCOM jobs like CJIRU or CSOR so obviously I will have those to choose from.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I am alittle confused.  I checked the Occupation Status info avail on the DGMC In Service Selection site, and FF is showing as GREEN and slightly over PML.  That means a healthy trade.

How is there a shortage of personnel?  Remember, the Occ Status only accounts for Trained Effective Strength compared to Preferred Manning Level, so doesn't even take into account folks who are in the trg system.

I am also not sure why you are indicating you can only choose SAR Tech or CANSOFCOM.  The AVOTP competition msg isn't even out yet (on the PSO sites I've visisted atleast).  I am very curious where this info is coming from? 

I went to the last avail FF Career Mgr brief (2011-11-29) and it shows a TES of 514 and PML of 451, and there is no info in the entire brief about FF being disbanded.

???

 

[danteh]

Our trade is far from healthy. The 6 months I have been in Trenton over 20 people (out of roughly 60) have put in releases/VORs with many more to come. There is a brand new fire hall opening up near cold lake and have already scouted tons of other members down that ways and releases have been put in that they've actually had to drop from four crews to three because of lack of man power. They have shortened our 3's course now to allow more people to come through the course quicker but no one wants to join because a) they don't get any calls b) got rid of spec pay c) you stay at a posting for like 3 years d) you spend more time on a ship rather than in a hall. I have a few guys in the DND departments that have been told that there is a a good possibility that they will be moving into the airforce bases within the next couple of years. People are getting pushed through they're courses so fast because of the fact that everyone is getting out. You have guys who have been in the trade for 20+ years saying that the trade has been consistently getting worse for the past 5 years and that this year is the worst it has ever been.

I'm not here to talk about the politics about the fire trade because the fact is I have not been in it long enough to fight about it. I'll put this out there though. I spent 9 months on my QL3's and in the 6 months I have been at the hall I have yet to do any of the stuff I have learned. Out of just my crew (9 guys) by the time I get back home in september, only me and 3 other guys will still be there because everyone else is releasing.

 

[danteh]

How is there a shortage of personnel?  Remember, the Occ Status only accounts for Trained Effective Strength compared to Preferred Manning Level, so doesn't even take into account folks who are in the trg system.

There isn't anyone in the training system because they are going to be cancelling the remainder of the courses because they are dropping the QL3's to 3 months instead of 9 because they made them longer to qualify for spec pay (a huge reason why people are getting out) and they wouldn't give it to us.

The fact is the job isn't going to be getting any better and I have planned on staying in the forces for as long as a I can and I don't want to be in a job where every week I have a friend saying he's release or changing trades or a job where I'm debating every shift if I actually want to stay in the job. This thread wasn't intended to be a war on whether or not the fire trade is in good shape or not. It was to gather some information. I respect your opinions as I always have from people with tons more time in the military than me but the truth is, unless your actually in the trade seeing what were going through you really don't know. Like I have said above, there is a release or VOR being put in everyone 1-2 weeks and it has been like that since i've been in the hall. It's kindove a running joke because its been going on for so long that by next final year its projected that were all going to be going down to three crews from four and running 24 hour shifts from our normal 4 on 4 off

 

[ff149]

Where the fire fighter trade is having a problem is in the senior ranks. We are short on those that require the 6A course.  We have a ton of QL3 and QL4 pers. Where we start losing them is after they complete their 5's. Many will take the 5's course and then when they get their first posting (usually to ship) they decide they've had enough and get out and join a civilian department. This has caused a shortage of 5's at most fire halls. The main issue with this is the 5's level is really the first level that they can act independently. To overcome this they have implemented a restricted release policy in order to go on the QL5 course, you don't sign it you don't go on your 5's. They have not been clear on what trades if any you can re muster to. Part of the restricted release is no re mustering (except in certain circumstances). We also have a lot of senior people that are approaching 20+ years and are planing on getting out. This also leads to a very quick promotion rate with many people getting promoted at the minimum time required.

As far as the trade disbanding there are certain rumors floating around. The military is currently looking at having the annual testing of fire alarms, suppression systems etc contracted out to civilian companies as things have become so computerized etc that we are not qualified to perform these functions. We have never done these in the past. These usually have been performed by either CE or CE civilian workers.  There was an article in a newspaper awhile ago where there was a misquote in which someone in Gagetown (a union president I believe) mentioned that fire fighters may be laid off. He has since said that it was a misquote. The CWO that used to be our senior trade advisor who only left the office last year said that they are not looking at job cuts. However everyone knows how rumors are it takes a life of its own.

One of the main problems with this trade is that we have a very good fire prevention program and many people join straight off off the street thinking that they are going to have the same call volume as Toronto or some of the bigger cities ( we don't come close to it). They then get dissatisfied with the trade and look to get out.

I don't think this trade will be disbanded, although anything is possible. We may go towards a civilian department where we would only respond to calls and get away from a lot of the maintenance we have been doing. 

 

[aesop081]

instead of 9 because they made them longer to qualify for spec pay

Length of training spec pay does not equal.

I don't want to be in a job where every week I have a friend saying he's release or changing trades or a job

You are going to have a very hard time finding a trade like that. Good luck, i don't think you will be happy in any trade, anywhere.

 

[danteh]

Length of training spec pay does not equal.

You are going to have a very hard time finding a trade like that. Good luck, i don't think you will be happy in any trade, anywhere.

They made it longer to qualify us in more advance training like EMR, Hazmat Ops, High Angle Rescue, Urban Search and Rescue, Water Rescue etc etc

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Ok.

Hey, I've got no iron in this fire so no odds to me but it sounds to me like you just want out of FF.

So, based on that, and that you are QL3 qualified, I think you need to track down and read CFAO 11-12.  I know the PSO you talk to will know what it says.  48 months svc and QL4 qual to apply for an OT out of FF.  It is an application so no 'for sure' you'll get an offer.  I'd take a WAG that the next Selection Boards will be Jan-Feb '13, with a file deadline for PSO towards the end of Nov '12.

Keep in mind your CofC fills out part of the application (signed off by your CO) and I think they still do an Assessment Form on the mbr, as well as the mbr does one themselves.

Hopefully someone from D Mil C will get those numbers straight on their SIP and Occ Status Matrix and the CM can get that CM Brief sorted out soon!  8)

In all seriousness, I hope they let you OT out and make the space for someone who wants to be a firefighter.  Personally, I hope ALL FFs in the CF are 'bored because they don't get any calls', much the same as I'd much prefer to see the LifeFlight chopper on the ground more than in the air.  :2c:

 

[danteh]

Yeah I am aware I need to get my 4's and by that time I will be able to OT.

It is great that there are no calls when you really think about it. But when your job is to answer calls which you don't have...

I definatly want to be a fire fighter but honestly I'm not... I have applications in to all of the volunteer halls in town who get more calls in a week than we get in a month. They defiantly don't need to wait for people "like me" to release to make room for people to get in the trade.

Luckily, at least in my crew, our CoC is very supportive on people wanting to get out of the trade. Our WO is actually pushing for it because even he is releasing to goto a civi hall

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Yeah I am aware I need to get my 4's and by that time I will be able to apply for an OT.

By the sounds of it, by then your trade WILL be RED and only 0.5% will be able to OT vice 2% when it is GREEN.

Luckily, at least in my crew, our CoC is very supportive on people wanting to get out of the trade. Our WO is actually pushing for it because even he is releasing to goto a civi hall

Starting to see why the trade will go RED now actually...ROFL. 

Ok, and with that I'm out.  Just remember, your CO gets to give a thumbs up/thumbs down recommendation on your OT app.

 

[aesop081]

But when your job is to answer calls which you don't have...

As an aviator, I am glad that the folks in the fire halls have not much to do. If they were busy, it would be a bad sign for people like me.

 

[danteh]

I hope you guys aren't getting the impression that i'm leaving the trade because there is not a high call volume. It is kindove hard to explain but when you train for 9 months to do a job and you don't get to do that job it gets frustrating. I am happy that people aren't having a terrible day and needing to call us but in saying that I want to have a job where I can actually put my training to use. It is starting to get to slack where we are going from doing training runs on burning buildings and mock aircrafts to learning how to maintain fire alarms (CE's Job), and changing light bulbs in the fire exit signs (seriously had a 2 hour lecture on the fire exit signs).

Just imagine your a pilot and you don't get to fly, ever.

 

[aesop081]

Just imagine your a pilot and you don't get to fly, ever.

None of us said that we didn't "get it".

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Just imagine your a pilot and you don't get to fly, ever.

Or say, an AES Op, posted to a unit in the NCR and not flying?

 

[aesop081]

Or say, an AES Op, posted to a unit in the NCR and not flying?

That would be horrible. I don't know what i would do in that case.

 

[Remius]

If it wasn't for the fact that I personally know two ex-firefighters (one was ct from the reserves, the other a VOT from the Infantry) that have expressed the exact sentiments and reasons for leaving that you have, I would have gotten that impression. 

 

[medicineman]

I hope you guys aren't getting the impression that i'm leaving the trade because there is not a high call volume. It is kindove hard to explain but when you train for 9 months to do a job and you don't get to do that job it gets frustrating. I am happy that people aren't having a terrible day and needing to call us but in saying that I want to have a job where I can actually put my training to use. It is starting to get to slack where we are going from doing training runs on burning buildings and mock aircrafts to learning how to maintain fire alarms (CE's Job), and changing light bulbs in the fire exit signs (seriously had a 2 hour lecture on the fire exit signs).

Just imagine your a pilot and you don't get to fly, ever.

Kinda like being stuck in medic school for a gazillion months and then going from fixing sick people to fixing sick trucks, filling equipment boxes, painting and sweeping floors, folding cam nets and garbage sweeps...most of us get it I think you'll find. 

MM

 

[danteh]

Kinda like being stuck in medic school for a gazillion months and then going from fixing sick people to fixing sick trucks, filling equipment boxes, painting and sweeping floors, folding cam nets and garbage sweeps...most of us get it I think you'll find. 

MM

Exactly

 

[mariomike]

One of the main problems with this trade is that we have a very good fire prevention program and many people join straight off off the street thinking that they are going to have the same call volume as Toronto or some of the bigger cities ( we don't come close to it). 

Some TFS pumpers run close to 5,000 calls per year. 

Station 332 is the busiest in Canada.

With all the skyscrapers under construction in the city, I can only see call volume increasing for the emergency services.

 

[danteh]

Well I have a buddy that just got out of the trade and went to Toronto Fire and his first week there he got more calls than his 7 years in the forces. Its really crazy. But in his words "I'm actually working for my pay check now"