Current Dress Regs

[Cloud Cover]

When Kipling published his words about Tommy Atkins* , the British public had a very strong disdain for the soldiers, and in particular soldiers uniforms and the general appearance of soldiers. It was dress and department regulations, and the particular attention paid to that by NCO's to have the lads "sharp", "look smart now" and "cracking" in form as the British army was professionalizing itself from the inside out. Its true the public respect grew from battlefield deeds of the Boer War and especially the Great War, but I suspect it was the soldiers and NCO's who instilled a tradition of respecting the uniform and maintaining a sharp public appearance on the basis of not letting down those who paid the ultimate sacrifice.
(Kiplings Tommy: "The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace")


How hard can it be to be keep hair and beards trimmed, uniforms neat and clean (when not in the field), carry on smartly and sharp, and in general not appear like a slouching, shuffling, dirty, sloth like prisoner of a Gulag when on garrison and especially in public.
Now I’m not saying you alll look like that, in fact most seem to be I fairly good order.
I like to think that one of the ways the Canadian Forces survived Trudeau the 1st was by acting better, smarter, with more class than than the man who was trying to torch the institution into the ground. I don’t know how the CAF is going to survive but one things for sure>>> people are not interested in joining a military that looks and feels like the campus at McGill.

Tommy: Tommy

 

[rmc_wannabe]

When Kipling published his words about Tommy Atkins* , the British public had a very strong disdain for the soldiers, and in particular soldiers uniforms and the general appearance of soldiers. It was dress and department regulations, and the particular attention paid to that by NCO's to have the lads "sharp", "look smart now" and "cracking" in form as the British army was professionalizing itself from the inside out. Its true the public respect grew from battlefield deeds of the Boer War and especially the Great War, but I suspect it was the soldiers and NCO's who instilled a tradition of respecting the uniform and maintaining a sharp public appearance on the basis of not letting down those who paid the ultimate sacrifice.
(Kiplings Tommy: "The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace")


How hard can it be to be keep hair and beards trimmed, uniforms neat and clean (when not in the field), carry on smartly and sharp, and in general not appear like a slouching, shuffling, dirty, sloth like prisoner of a Gulag when on garrison and especially in public.
Now I’m not saying you alll look like that, in fact most seem to be I fairly good order.
I like to think that one of the ways the Canadian Forces survived Trudeau the 1st was by acting better, smarter, with more class than than the man who was trying to torch the institution into the ground. I don’t know how the CAF is going to survive but one things for sure>>> people are not interested in joining a military that looks and feels like the campus at McGill.

Tommy: Tommy

I honestly blame the integration of DND and CAF over the last 30 years for a lot of the woes we see in the realm of morale.

I have scolded my sibling officers for claiming they "manage" their subordinates, vice proudly stating they "lead" them. Leadership is far more than management, but when you have a bulk of the CAF cubicle sharing with a PS "Manager" who has an HR(Civ) and union dealing with those "people" issues... you become more focused on task matrices and KPIs than you do on being a leader of soldiers.

Taking away aspects that set us apart from the PS, not strictly the "killing people" aspect Gen Hillier alluded to, has fostered this defeatist and apathetic attitude to our heritage, history, and traditions. Its also why I don't see us weathering the storm as well as we did in previous Decades of Darkness.

If that is by design or coincidence is yet to be seen. If its the latter, its all the more insidious.

 

[NavyHopeful]

Having been a part of the “oh sorry we haven’t had pants/shirts/tunics in your size” excuse from Logistik in the past couple of years (thankfully I hoarded some from a while back and haven’t really changed sizes), I’m willing to give a pass on ill-fitting service dress. That is on Logistik.

That is on ADM Mat and PSPC for not building an enforceable contract with Logistik.

As a bigger dude, I can say that PART of the blame would fall at the feet of these organizations. There is NOTHING stopping said larger individuals in taking their uniforms to a tailor and having them altered. IMHO, it all boils down to a matter of pride: The pride that the member has in themselves when they put the uniform on, and sadly, that pride, for some members, has been dwindling for quite some time.

 

[MARS]

I decided a long fucking time ago that I wasn't going to take criticism about my dress from people who wore wax moustaches and told me that a blue blazer and grey flannels were what I was required to wear to get a drink in my mess.

It has not been their 19th/early 20th century military for a long time.

It is ours now

I think they looked like literal clowns. They think we look like literal hobos.

The next generation will think the same of us.

Its the ciiiiiiiircle of life

 

[Cloud Cover]

Fair point.

 

[KevinB]

One standard - no hair at all

There I solved everything

 

[Quirky]

One standard - no hair at all

There I solved everything

There is NOTHING stopping said larger individuals in taking their uniforms to a tailor and having them altered.

I tried that, but they couldn't accommodate broad shoulders and a thin waste, the tapered look does not fly. Could just be the tailor. I guess my DEU jacket will remain massive in the mid section with the ability to hide bags of whatever.

 

[dapaterson]

There isn't a lot of will and effort to enforce the standards of an organization that doesn't care about you. The lack of enforcement was likely intentional due to a weak policy and a 'let it burn' attitude.

So, as a leader, what have you done?

 

[lenaitch]

One standard - no hair at all

There I solved everything

Uuum . . . just head and facial, right ?!?

 

[KevinB]

Uuum . . . just head and facial, right ?!?

Uhm sure

 

[lenaitch]

Uhm sure

I just wouldn't want to see inspections getting out of hand. The CAF has had some challenges regarding matters of the nether regions.

 

[KevinB]

I just wouldn't want to see inspections getting out of hand. The CAF has had some challenges regarding matters of the nether regions.

Brazilian inspectors

 

[Ostrozac]

Blue hair, face tats, and face piercings was laughably too far. Decorum was tossed out the window to appease the whims a few malcontents.

Face piercings are specifically banned by regulation. (See 8.c. at link)

Dress instructions | Section 2 Appearance - Canada.ca

Canadian Armed Forces Dress Instructions

www.canada.ca

If that rather low but clear standard isn’t being enforced, then we do indeed have a problem.

 

[dimsum]

Blue hair, face tats, and face piercings was laughably too far. Decorum was tossed out the window to appease the whims a few malcontents.

How about these ones? Are they “malcontents”?

Kakiniit - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Diverging a bit, the Māori are known for their face tattoos, but also as a warrior culture. The NZ Defence Force allows face tattoos. I sure as hell wouldn’t want to be on the wrong side of that CPO.

https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/5mm63h/new_zealand_navy_welcomes_its_first_sailor_with_a

 

[FSTO]

How about these ones? Are they “malcontents”?

Kakiniit - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Diverging a bit, the Māori are known for their face tattoos, but also as a warrior culture. The NZ Defence Force allows face tattoos. I sure as hell wouldn’t want to be on the wrong side of that CPO.

https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/5mm63h/new_zealand_navy_welcomes_its_first_sailor_with_a

Ain’t nothing cultural about some of the trailer trash facial tattoos I’ve seen about.

 

[dimsum]

Ain’t nothing cultural about some of the trailer trash facial tattoos I’ve seen about.

Sure - I see them too. I don’t see them on CAF members though.

I have seen neck tattoos (not cultural ones) on CAF members. Years before the current dress regs. No one seemed bothered by that though, since they weren’t ordered to have them removed.

 

[dimsum]

I decided a long fucking time ago that I wasn't going to take criticism about my dress from people who wore wax moustaches and told me that a blue blazer and grey flannels were what I was required to wear to get a drink in my mess.

It has not been their 19th/early 20th century military for a long time.

It is ours now

I think they looked like literal clowns. They think we look like literal hobos.

The next generation will think the same of us.

Its the ciiiiiiiircle of life

 

[FSTO]

Sure - I see them too. I don’t see them on CAF members though.

I have seen neck tattoos (not cultural ones) on CAF members. Years before the current dress regs. No one seemed bothered by that though, since they weren’t ordered to have them removed.

I have no tattoos and do not understand the attraction. But that is just me.
Facial tats are a red line for me, a person who has them without a cultural reason has lost all credibility with me.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Diverging a bit, the Māori are known for their face tattoos, but also as a warrior culture.

According to the logic engine there are now no full-blooded Maori alive, and few, if any, half Maori. The 17% of New Zealand's population who claim to be Maori all have more DNA from non-Maori ancestors.

As far as the Inuit go, there are provisions for them to join the CAF even after they fail the CFAT (in the name of increasing representation).

I don't think either make super strong arguments why we should allow face tattoos (which wasn't exactly what you were saying, just generalizing).

 

[OldSolduer]

Ain’t nothing cultural about some of the trailer trash facial tattoos I’ve seen about.

No kidding and the CAF should roundly reject this fad.