Current Dress Regs

[dimsum]

The senior leadership should have NEVER let the beard thing start. IT was a can of worms from the get go. Traditionally sailors and Pioneers had beards along with those who had a "beard chit" from competent medical authorities. THAT is the way it should have stayed. To rescind it NOW would be best.

Why though?

I’m being honest here - what reason (aside from operations and gas mask and whatever, in which case you can still be ordered to shave if in an area that could foreseeably be under CBRN threat) should beards not be allowed? Keep them to a short length if folks don’t want to see ZZ Top beards.

We can’t even use the “tradition” angle since the British Army, of all places, is allowing beards now.

 

[OldSolduer]

Why though?

I’m being honest here - what reason (aside from operations and gas mask and whatever, in which case you can still be ordered to shave if in an area that could foreseeably be under CBRN threat) should beards not be allowed? Keep them to a short length if folks don’t want to see ZZ Top beards.

We can’t even use the “tradition” angle since the British Army, of all places, is allowing beards now.

I understand that it is the 21st century and the CAF needs to keep up with the times. BUT at some point you have to say NO this is the line we are drawing and we are not crossing it. The beards are that line - but pay no mind to me I am long retired.
Longer hair - yeah I am ok with that. I was picked up a fair bit for hair that was a bit long. I pushed the envelope sometimes but gently. I definitely could see the beard dudes pushing it.

 

[Remius]

I understand that it is the 21st century and the CAF needs to keep up with the times. BUT at some point you have to say NO this is the line we are drawing and we are not crossing it. The beards are that line - but pay no mind to me I am long retired.
Longer hair - yeah I am ok with that. I was picked up a fair bit for hair that was a bit long. I pushed the envelope sometimes but gently. I definitely could see the beard dudes pushing it.

Except beards are actually from a previous time. What’s old is new is old again.

 

[OldSolduer]

Except beards are actually from a previous time. What’s old is new is old again.

View attachment 84794

They also didn't have to contend with the seal on respirators.

 

[Remius]

They also didn't have to contend with the seal on respirators.

I think we are adaptable enough to shave as required when required. Militaries across history have adapted to their conditions and situations as needed. This doesn’t have to be complicated.

It’s actually interesting to dive into the “why” in various countries military history. Why they wore them, forbade them, reintroduced them etc etc.

 

[OldSolduer]

I think we are adaptable enough to shave as required when required. Militaries across history have adapted to their conditions and situations as needed. This doesn’t have to be complicated.

It’s actually interesting to dive into the “why” in various countries military history. Why they wore them, forbade them, reintroduced them etc etc.

It really isn't my fight and I shouldn't care BUT here I go: I think a professional military should look professional. For that reason alone I think people should be clean shaven and and look the part.

Yes the CAF should be adaptable to the situation. Yeah I am old fashioned that way.

 

[Remius]

It really isn't my fight and I shouldn't care BUT here I go: I think a professional military should look professional. For that reason alone I think people should be clean shaven and and look the part.

Yes the CAF should be adaptable to the situation. Yeah I am old fashioned that way.

I have no issues with your opinion on that. The key is to look professional. I think we can still do it with beards. Which is why I think this update on the dress regs is needed.

 

[dimsum]

They also didn't have to contend with the seal on respirators.

BEARDFORGEN specifically says that you can be ordered to shave in cases that you need CBRN gear.

We don’t carry our gas masks around with us in Canada, or in garrison.

 

[OldSolduer]

BEARDFORGEN specifically says that you can be ordered to shave in cases that you need CBRN gear.

We don’t carry our gas masks around with us in Canada, or in garrison.

Yes I get that, but a professional military should look professional. I certainly hope that the latest dress regs sort this out.

 

[Zoomie]

BEARDFORGEN specifically says that you can be ordered to shave in cases that you need CBRN gear.

We don’t carry our gas masks around with us in Canada, or in garrison.

Anyone deploying and needing IS2 for CBRNE need to do a fit test - which requires clean shaven face. Theoretically everyone in Latvia should be clean shaven, but somehow I doubt that is the case.

 

[Maxman1]

Except beards are actually from a previous time. What’s old is new is old again.

View attachment 84794

A troop in my unit grew sideburns just like the guy on the right. He just recently shaved them.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I'm curious if anyone will start enforcing anything to do with dress. Part of the issue is that no one bothered even before they opened the floodgates. The folks who previously appeared rumpled and untidy moved to full-on slovenly. I was considered a hard-ass because I insisted that pers in 3Bs be clean and unrumpled, shirts and trousers needed to show evidence of being exposed to an iron, shoes/boots needed to be black, not grey. And this was years before standards disappeared.

Remembrance Day for the last few years has left me profoundly depressed as I see so many members who can't put an iota of effort into their dress for our most solemn day of the year. Last year, I almost lost it. I was behind a major with a scraggly little ponytail, a tunic that showed evidence that button failure was imminent, and his ill-fitting trousers showed no discernable crease and looked like they had been slept in. And sadly, he wasn't exceptional.

Standards are irrelevant unless they're enforced.

I think the reason things are being enforced is low morale and weak WOs/PO1s to CWO/CPO1. And I am well in grained in that group so I am pointing the finger at myself. I think another reason is a shitty set of orders were issued that left to much ambiguity.

The senior leadership should have NEVER let the beard thing start. IT was a can of worms from the get go. Traditionally sailors and Pioneers had beards along with those who had a "beard chit" from competent medical authorities. THAT is the way it should have stayed. To rescind it NOW would be best.

I don't see an issue with anyone growing a beard so long as its well kept, filled in and groomed.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

I think the reason things are being enforced is low morale and weak WOs/PO1s to CWO/CPO1. And I am well in grained in that group so I am pointing the finger at myself. I think another reason is a shitty set of orders were issued that left to much ambiguity.

I think you hit the nail here, HT.

The regs as they were rewritten provided no clear direction on "Maintaining a profrssional appearance"; which in and of itself is subjective to the individual.

Couple that subjectivity with the potential of unsupportive CoCs should the WO/POs try to get Bloggins to groom themselves; well, path of least resistance.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Couple that subjectivity with the potential of unsupportive CoCs should the WO/POs try to get Bloggins to groom themselves; well, path of least resistance.

Punish platoon commanders for not enforcing and maintaining discipline in their platoons.

 

[AKa]

Punish platoon commanders for not enforcing and maintaining discipline in their platoons.

First there needs to be consequences for senior leaders who fail in this respect. Enforcing discipline at any level has become unfashionable.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I think the reason things are NOT being enforced is low morale and weak WOs/PO1s to CWO/CPO1. And I am well ingrained in that group so I am pointing the finger at myself. I think another reason is a shitty set of orders were issued that left to much ambiguity.



I don't see an issue with anyone growing a beard so long as its well kept, filled in and groomed.

Quoting myself to fix errors. My bad, I posted before coffee again.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

First there needs to be consequences for senior leaders who fail in this respect. Enforcing discipline at any level has become unfashionable.

This is more in line with my take on it.

Failure to enforce standards on everything dress, drill, deportment, and discipline often stem from an environment where results are favoured over process.

Its a slippery slope. One could argue that our lax approach to enforcing DAODs on misconduct, or laying charges for gross disciplinary issues are reflected in how poorly this has been enforced.

"I don't want to have to deal with this"
"Yeah well, he's a good troop who is our only qualified pallet-stretcher... so...."
"Someone else down the road will sort them out..."

Obviously not...

 

[Halifax Tar]

This is more in line with my take on it.

Failure to enforce standards on everything dress, drill, deportment, and discipline often stem from an environment where results are favoured over process.

Its a slippery slope. One could argue that our lax approach to enforcing DAODs on misconduct, or laying charges for gross disciplinary issues are reflected in how poorly this has been enforced.

"I don't want to have to deal with this"
"Yeah well, he's a good troop who is our only qualified pallet-stretcher... so...."
"Someone else down the road will sort them out..."

Obviously not...

We are using the same music sheet.

We have a general lack of discipline and knock on of that is the lack of enforcement of that discipline is a problem. Its starts with the small stuff like D&D.

While I think the Sgts and WOs mess is weak right now, I think its also lacking in morale and that is a contributing factor.

Punish platoon commanders for not enforcing and maintaining discipline in their platoons.

Absolutely, but your PO1s/WOs and above have a responsibility in this as well. They (we, myself included) are the backbone of what we do, and when that backbone is weak it will reverberate throughout the institution.

 

[QV]

Blue hair, face tats, and face piercings was laughably too far. Decorum was tossed out the window to appease the whims a few malcontents.

 

[Quirky]

While I think the Sgts and WOs mess is weak right now, I think its also lacking in morale and that is a contributing factor.

There isn't a lot of will and effort to enforce the standards of an organization that doesn't care about you. The lack of enforcement was likely intentional due to a weak policy and a 'let it burn' attitude.