Defence and Security Gets Attention in Federal Throne Speech

[Kirkhill]

PPCLI Guy I agree. I was just painting the reports with a broad brush. I'm certain if we looked at our spending habits we could really find ways to cut out some silly spending and put the money where it's much better spent

I wouldn't give all the credit to DND. Public Works and Government Services Canada must get much of the blame.  PWGSC of Adscam and Alfonso Gagliano.  PWGSC of Industrial Regional Benefits and Native work programmes, of national trade off-sets and support for "favoured" companies (like DEW, Oerlikon, DDGM and Bombardier), of vote-buying in the name ofhe National Unity and of political interference.

These things result in $80,000 Iltis's and Javelin missiles not yet purchased despite having passed field trials with the CF.  They also result in funds that should be used to buy PROVEN technologies off the shelf being used to buy unproven systems from inexperienced suppliers with operational capital rather than R&D funds.  As a result projects take too long and the results are often unsatisfactory if not dangerous.  And the delays in implementation often mean that the solution is outmoded before it is fully fielded and you folks have managed to find a "work-around" thatoo negates the neeod for the system in the first place

The Dutch, notably a particularly parsimonious bunch - more frugal than the Scots some would say - came to the conclusion some years ago that trying to integrate their defence buying decisions into a national economic development strategy was a losing propositio in the long term.  The tail ended up wagging the dog - in all the bureaucratic bumbling the purpose of the exercise - to quickly and cost-effectively supply the nation's forces with the necessary tools to do the jobs the nation required - was forgotten.  The Dutch scrapped the at the expense of some defence industry jobs.

Despite this I find it almost miraculous that you have ended up with what appears to be some very good kit, when used as intended, like the AVGP-LAV series. 

 

[Jarnhamar]

Sorry for going off topic here but an Iltis actually costs $80'000 ?

Thats just incredable.

 

[Kirkhill]

The actual number cited by Col. Howard Marsh and quoted by a journalist in the Ottawa Citizen (27 Jan 2001) was $84,000 (presumably in 1985 dollars) and DND was required to buy them from Bombardier.  Had it been bought from Germany the unit cost apparently would have been $28,000.

I note that the CASR site stipulates a contract price of $68,000,000 for 2500 vehicles.  That works out to a unit price of $27,200.  http://www.sfu.ca/casr/101-vehiltis.htm

I can't explain the discrepancy.  Col. Marsh's number has stuck with me since I read the article.  I only came across the CASR number when checking my facts to reply to you. 

Perhaps someone else could shed additional light.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

The Dutch also have Apahce AH.

 

[lfejoel25]

As per the iltis, i don't know too much about it, but i got a buddy that is a Forces Mechanic.  He mentioned to me once that for every iltis they bought, they bought basically bought another one in spare parts and extras.  That was why he said it cost so much per vehicle.  Don't know enough about the subject to offer info, that's just what i heard.

but as per the liberals, if they actually DID want to put money into the forces, i think that speech from the throne was pretty smart.
go on about how we have to help the world and in a post 9/11 world also serve more to protect our borders and serve our country in case of disaster.  once you get into a minority parliament, as the opposition, if they voted against, the liberals could spin it.  voting against could imply they don't care about canadians in need, or want to help in disasters around the world. 

i don't know if i explained myself well, but i think you'd all get the jist.  using the speech from the throne to put the proper PR spin on it.