Destroyer/Or Frigate
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"It is similar to using the definitive article "the" before ship's names, as in "I sailed on in the HALIFAX". Makes no sense, sounds funny, but lots of people say it that way. Ship's names are proper nouns - they do not require "the" before them. It is like using "the" before the word "McDonalds""
Must add fuel to fire and derail this whole topic. The can be used with proper nouns and often are with regards to Clan names. Examples are The O'Nieils, The MacDonalds, The Bruces, The Llewllyns and the dreaded, and much reviled The Campbells.
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Must add fuel to fire and derail this whole topic. The can be used with proper nouns and often are with regards to Clan names. Examples are The O'Nieils, The MacDonalds, The Bruces, The Llewllyns and the dreaded, and much reviled The Campbells.
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Yes, because that's the general rule for collectives.
One might be able to say, for example, that "N applied to all of the Ottawas: the C Class destroyer - H60, lost in 1942; the second Ottawa - H31, credited with three U-boat kills; the Cold War destroyer - DDE229; and the new frigate - FFH341."
The four ships become a collective and "the" appliers. But, broadly, MARS is correct.
One might be able to say, for example, that "N applied to all of the Ottawas: the C Class destroyer - H60, lost in 1942; the second Ottawa - H31, credited with three U-boat kills; the Cold War destroyer - DDE229; and the new frigate - FFH341."
The four ships become a collective and "the" appliers. But, broadly, MARS is correct.
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Harley Sailor said:
Do you live in a house, or on it? Same kind of thing.
I suspect the use of "on a ship" is an Americanism, along with "The HMCS so-and-so", both of which I imagine crept into Canadian English via Star Trek.
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Bingo!! We have a winner. ;DNeill McKay said:
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jollyjacktar
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A sailor is carried on the muster roll of a ship is he not? At any rate perhaps the denizens of the Wardroom are more correct in their daily venacular as compaired to the Great Unwashed but it is "on" not "in" that I hear used in conversation more often from both sides of the fence. I don't believe it will be going away or becoming more pusser anytime soon.
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I guess you are right JollyJacktar, it all depends on who you talk to.
You ride on a train, on a plane, and in a boat/ship. Anything you board is considered getting on, not getting in. If you hang around a cruse ship you will be told to get on before it sails, not get in. Same at the train station and airport.
You ride on a train, on a plane, and in a boat/ship. Anything you board is considered getting on, not getting in. If you hang around a cruse ship you will be told to get on before it sails, not get in. Same at the train station and airport.
Colin Parkinson
Army.ca Myth
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I don't care what you are in/on, as long as you are not picking distances off of the longitudes and opening a seacock to see what happens.
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Some of the naval types in Slackers may have heard of CPO1 "Buster" Brown. Buster was the Formation Chief in Halifax in the early '90s and also served as technical consultant on the film "U-571 Widowmaker" as he had a long and illustrious career in O-Boats. I asked his take on which is proper naval terminology, sailing or serving "on"/"in" a ship. Here is his response:
"My take.........
In the engine room, in the Ops Room, in the cafeteria, in the wardroom, down in the mess.............
On the bridge, back on the AX, on the uppers, up on the FX, ................
As the function of a ship's workings are internal in order to Float, Move and Fight, tells me that sailors deal with their workings "in" them rather than "on" them.
.................and let us not forget those "Who Go Down to the Sea in Ships!"
Buster
P.S. Could you imagine anyone standing "on" the fore casing of a boat down at 300 ft. while everybody else "in" it is doing a verification muster???"
I rest my case.
"My take.........
In the engine room, in the Ops Room, in the cafeteria, in the wardroom, down in the mess.............
On the bridge, back on the AX, on the uppers, up on the FX, ................
As the function of a ship's workings are internal in order to Float, Move and Fight, tells me that sailors deal with their workings "in" them rather than "on" them.
.................and let us not forget those "Who Go Down to the Sea in Ships!"
Buster
P.S. Could you imagine anyone standing "on" the fore casing of a boat down at 300 ft. while everybody else "in" it is doing a verification muster???"
I rest my case.
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Well it was bound to happen.
I was at a retirement ceremony today for a fine sailor with 25 years service. At the ceremony they all talked about what a great guy he was and how great it was to sail on ships with him and work in the school with him. Yes "on" ships. There was the DIV Commander, the school CPO1, the DIV CPO2, and a host of others. Not one said they sailed "in" a ship with him. The scroll he was presented listed the "Ships he sailed on" and the shadow box had a plaque with a list of the "Ships he sailed on". The scroll was presented by a CPO2 (not the DIV CPO2) and the shadow box plaque was made by FMF Cape Scot.
Now out of all them people why would none of them use "in".
Must be an East Coast Navy thing
I was at a retirement ceremony today for a fine sailor with 25 years service. At the ceremony they all talked about what a great guy he was and how great it was to sail on ships with him and work in the school with him. Yes "on" ships. There was the DIV Commander, the school CPO1, the DIV CPO2, and a host of others. Not one said they sailed "in" a ship with him. The scroll he was presented listed the "Ships he sailed on" and the shadow box had a plaque with a list of the "Ships he sailed on". The scroll was presented by a CPO2 (not the DIV CPO2) and the shadow box plaque was made by FMF Cape Scot.
Now out of all them people why would none of them use "in".
Must be an East Coast Navy thing
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Harley Sailor said:
This is an issue no different from a hundred others in the English language. Lots of Canadians -- including at least one judge I heard -- talk about being "on the witness stand" when in fact there is no such thing in a Canadian courtroom (but there is a witness box). Lots of people address parliamentarians as "Mr. Prime Minister", "Mr. Minister", or "Mr. Premier" when none of those people are supposed to have a "Mr." in front of them (it's just "Good Morning, Prime Minister").
We live in a time and place when an awful lot of people don't care much about the finer details of the language. Some of those people are in the navy, and some of them say things like "on a ship". Such is life.
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jollyjacktar
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Or any other living language for that matter. Terms, rules and vernacular change over time for many factors I suppose. They could include cultural influences from another society, lack of useage or the meanings and intent change over time. Yes, I do agree it can also be attributed to laziness for some, but also lack of education in others.
At the end of the day if a word or phrase usage changes overall for use by the masses and continues to do so, then it will in fact be the new norm will it not. At one time being "gay" meant to be happy, not a person of an alternative lifestyle as it does now. Yes, I know the two meanings are still around but no one and I mean no one uses the happy version anywhere. So it has indeed changed.
Otherwise, one will have to change over to a dead language such as Latin if one wants their language rules, meanings and pronunciation's set in stone.
At the end of the day if a word or phrase usage changes overall for use by the masses and continues to do so, then it will in fact be the new norm will it not. At one time being "gay" meant to be happy, not a person of an alternative lifestyle as it does now. Yes, I know the two meanings are still around but no one and I mean no one uses the happy version anywhere. So it has indeed changed.
Otherwise, one will have to change over to a dead language such as Latin if one wants their language rules, meanings and pronunciation's set in stone.
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I love being gay.
These threads are getting out of hand, we have a CAPS, No CAPS ships name thread, and this IN or ON... So what does it mean when someone says "I was onboard for that incident". Its not inboard. Does it really matter?
I think we need a new section on here for these types of threads that just keep going nowhere.
These threads are getting out of hand, we have a CAPS, No CAPS ships name thread, and this IN or ON... So what does it mean when someone says "I was onboard for that incident". Its not inboard. Does it really matter?
I think we need a new section on here for these types of threads that just keep going nowhere.
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Danjanou said:
Should not that be "about this subject" ;D >
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aesop081
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nickanick said:
You are.
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