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Dion on Afghanistan

I think the sad part is that Dion, in common with about 97.5% of Canadians, doesn’t understand that a sort of ‘Colombo Plan’ for Afghanistan already exists: the Bonn Agreement of December 2001 - http://www.afghangovernment.com/AfghanAgreementBonn.htm  and The Afghanistan Compact of February 2006 - http://www.fco.gov.uk/Files/kfile/20060130%20Afghanistan%20Compact%20Final%20Final,0.doc

See also: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6205220.stm .  The Afghan people have done their share; they have, freely and fairly, elected a government; they are, however falteringly, building an army and police service; they are using, and sometimes abusing, the aid which is arriving – albeit slowly, thanks to bureaucratic ineptitude, in Canada’s case.  The ISAF partners are doing some of their share – they are making it safe for an elected civilian Afghan government to exercise its mandate in almost every part of the country.  They might do more if some NATO partners would release their soldiers from the bonds of national caveats and let them join the fight.  In this regard M. Dion is right.


The requirement is not a ‘new Marshall Plan.’ The requirement is to finish implementing the plan which exists.

What's really needed is a new, competent foreign and defence policy advisory team for M. Dion.
 
I don't mind seeing this kind of criticism. I don't mind an opposition that questions government policy in a reasonable manner, as opposed to bumper-sticker genius such as "The JTF2 is abandoning the CF" or "Let's flee then start to negotiate."
I trust politicians of all parties about as much as I trust hungry pythons, but once in a while they don't squeeze you and eat you alive. Once in a while.

I understand the Marshall Plan concept, but I think it's a mistake to fight the last war. The Marshall Plan worked in Germany and Japan, but both those countries had the following:

a. a strong concept of nationhood and social responsibility
b. a strong (though temporarily pulverized) pre-war infrastructure, including education, industry, governance, transport, media
c. an emerging middle class that felt strongly invested in the economic future of the country
d. homogeneous ethnicity/language/religion
e. a former functioning, efficient, and powerful world-class state that existed in the living memory of most of its citizens
f. a literate and educated population
g. an extremely large Allied occupation force that made no bones about the fact that it ran the country
(Germany and Japan had them, Afghanistan (and Iraq for what it's worth) by and large don't.)

The Marshall Plan was essentially returning the Germans/Japanese to where they had been not many years before.
In Afghanistan, I'm reminded of the joke:
Doctor: "I'm afraid we have to operate on your hand."
Patient: "Will I be able to play the piano after the operation?"
Doctor: "Sure."
Patient: "Cool. I never could before."

So, it's an idea, but if we use the 1945 version of the Marshall Plan as a blueprint we'll be in for disappointment. Progress will be far slower than we got in Germany and Japan ... at least I think so. We need to adjust expectations.
 
Some interesting quotes From Mr. Dion in this Op-ed from the Toronto Star

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_PrintFriendly&c=Article&cid=1165359015189&call_pageid=970599119419

Walkom: Clock ticking on Kandahar role
Dec. 6, 2006. 01:37 PM
THOMAS WALKOM


Canada is on the way out of Afghanistan — or at least out of the battle zones in that country's south.

This is not official. It has certainly not been announced. But both the governing Conservatives and now the Stéphane Dion Liberals are signalling that this is where they intend to go.

The Liberals, originally the architects of Canadian involvement in Afghanistan, have become, under their new leader, some of its harshest critics.

"(Trying to) kill the Taliban in every corner of the mountains doesn't work," Dion said on Monday. "So we will try to propose to the government an approach that makes sense."

He has said in published interviews that he is not committed to the current government's decision to keep Canadian troops in Kandahar until 2009 and that, if he became prime minister, he would look for a way to withdraw "with honour" from at least the hot zones in Afghanistan's south.

"Canada must say (to its NATO allies and the Afghan government): `Look, we are very willing to work with you, to design something that makes sense,'" he told the CanWest News Service two weeks ago.

"Because I don't want to risk the lives of our soldiers if we are not making progress."

Prime Minister Stephen Harper's Conservatives have been more circumspect about extricating themselves. In September, Harper pledged to stand shoulder to shoulder with Afghan President Hamid Karzai in his battle against Taliban and other insurgents.

But the Prime Minister too appears to be laying the groundwork for the eventual withdrawal of Canadian troops from the killing fields of Kandahar.

In particular, Harper ministers have been emphasizing the unwillingness of other NATO countries — such as Germany and France — to commit their troops to the southern battlefields.

"We cannot continue to do this without further support," Foreign Affairs Minister Peter MacKay said bluntly in October.

Last week, Harper flew to a NATO meeting in Latvia to ask for that support. He didn't get it.

Which means that the Conservative government now has a perfect excuse to shift gears. It can plausibly say — at the appropriate political moment — that Canada has paid its price in blood and that it is now someone else's turn to die.

That won't necessarily mean bringing the troops home. Polls show that while Canadians oppose their soldiers being killed in Afghanistan, they do support their being there to help rebuild the country.

The most face-saving way for Harper to square this circle would be for him to quietly insist that NATO reassign Canadian forces to a safer task.

That appears to be Dion's preferred option as well.

"When we say we leave (Afghanistan), it is not exactly that," Dion said two weeks ago in an interview with the National Post. "It is that we decide to change the mission in a way that will be much less dangerous for us."

"The burden on our soldiers is becoming unrealistic," he told the Toronto Star editorial board in September. "Other (NATO) countries have the feeling that the Canadians will take care of it, so they are less engaged than they should be."

For the new Liberal leader, this is quite a switch.

Just nine months ago, as his party's foreign affairs critic, Dion was a staunch backer of the decision to send Canadian troops head-to-head against Taliban fighters in Kandahar.

"It's a very important mission and we want to be there," he told a Canadian Press reporter in early March.

"We will succeed in Afghanistan if we show a lot of determination," he said on CTV a few days later. "We need to be resolute and to succeed."

When New Democratic MP Alexa McDonough questioned the wisdom of having Canada shift its focus in Afghanistan from development to full-scale fighting, Dion was dismissive.

"We need to be there. Canada is a good citizen of the world. We are very courageous. We have been in Yugoslavia. We are ready to be in tough situations."

True, he voted against the Harper government's decision in May to extend the Afghan mission to 2009. But he made it clear at the time, that he was voting against the way Harper made that decision, not the decision itself.

In September, when NDP Leader Jack Layton called on the government to withdraw Canadian troops by early 2007, Dion was caustic. "No one wants us to get out now, like Mr. Layton, in dishonour," he said on Sept 17.

Now, it seems, the new leader of the Liberal party has changed his tune.

And with Harper preparing the ground for what looks to be his eventual reversal, the political momentum for Canada to get out of Kandahar looks unstoppable. The only question remaining is when. Or, to put it another way, how many more soldiers will have to die before the inevitable occurs
 
Darn, Sorry Stephane that Pesky UN has beat you to it, such a drag, first stymied at your efforts to save the planet, now flummoxed at your design to become a latter day George Marshall.....

From UNAMA

General Assembly puts its weight behind Afghan reconstruction plan

29 November 2006 – The 192-member General Assembly has fully backed a five-year reconstruction plan for strife-torn Afghanistan agreed with the international community earlier this year, stressing in particular the need to improve security in the country and also deal with the widespread drug trade .

Acting without a vote, the Assembly wrapped up its annual debate on Afghanistan yesterday by adopting an 11-page resolution pledging to implement the Afghan Compact, which was launched in January as a wide-ranging blueprint for development covering politics, economics, human rights, crime and judicial reform.

“The General Assembly… expressing its strong commitment to the implementation of the Afghanistan Compact and its annexes, launched at the International Conference on Afghanistan… which provide the framework for the partnership between the Government of Afghanistan and the international community,” the resolution stated

“(The Assembly) calls upon the Government of Afghanistan, with the assistance of the international community, including through the Operation Enduring Freedom coalition and the International Security Assistance Force… to continue to address the threat to the security and stability of Afghanistan posed by the Taliban, Al-Qaida and other extremist groups as well as by criminal violence, in particular violence involving the drug trade.”

The resolution also called upon the Government to “vigorously pursue its efforts to establish a more effective, accountable and transparent administration at all levels,” while urging international donors to follow-up on agreements made during the January meeting and Member States to assist in the recovery efforts.

“(The Assembly) urgently appeals to all States, the United Nations system and international and non-governmental organizations to continue to provide, in close coordination with the Government of Afghanistan and in accordance with its national development strategy, all possible and necessary humanitarian, recovery, reconstruction, financial, technical and material assistance for Afghanistan.”

The Assembly debate, which also involved representatives from 16 other countries and regional groups, follows a Security Council mission to Afghanistan earlier this month which warned that unless the international community fully supports the recovery effort, the country risks becoming a failed State.

Yesterday’s discussions also focused on Secretary-General Kofi Annan’s latest reporton the country, which was released in September and warned that the upsurge in violence over the past few months represents a “watershed” and is the most severe threat to the transition to peace since the fall of the Taliban in 2001.

......   
 
probum non poenitet said:
I understand the Marshall Plan concept, but I think it's a mistake to fight the last war. The Marshall Plan worked in Germany and Japan, but both those countries had the following:

a. a strong concept of nationhood and social responsibility
b. a strong (though temporarily pulverized) pre-war infrastructure, including education, industry, governance, transport, media
c. an emerging middle class that felt strongly invested in the economic future of the country
d. homogeneous ethnicity/language/religion
e. a former functioning, efficient, and powerful world-class state that existed in the living memory of most of its citizens
f. a literate and educated population
g. an extremely large Allied occupation force that made no bones about the fact that it ran the country
(Germany and Japan had them, Afghanistan (and Iraq for what it's worth) by and large don't.)

Well, I can't argue your points since you don't reference them. They appear nothing more then vague generalizations.

I do want to point out that the Marshall plan was not merely for Germany and Japan. The so-called Marshall Plan was aimed at lifting all the war torn nations of Europe, notably France and Britain, out of economic ruin. The key difference between the Marshall plan and other contemporary development strategies was the political will present in the United States. For years they committed over 10 percent of their GDP to economic aid to Europe. Compare that to modern times where countries have pledged 0.7% of their GDP towards Official Development Assistance (see DAC of the OECD ) but have overwhelmingly failed to meet those pledges (notable exceptions include the Nordic countries).

Indeed, prominent development economist Jeffrey Sachs has argued that if the United States alone were to commit 0.5% of its GDP to foreign aid (still below what it has said it would do), their increased contribution would fill in half of the gap between current spending and what is needed.

The main success of the Marshall plan was the enormous amount of money contributed and the political will in the United States to see it through.
 
Of course to reference the Marshall Plan requires a knowledge of history, something the Liberals and thier fellow travellers are rather deficient in:

http://ottawaingenue.blogspot.com/2006/12/watching-mike-duffy-live.html

Watching Mike Duffy Live...

Did Ujjal Dosanjh just say that the Conservatives have MILITARIZED the Afganistan mission? No kidding! Let's jump in the ole time machine and see how Canada became involved in this unwitting theatre of war!

Dateline: October 2001

Oh yeah, there is Prime Minister Jean Chretien announcing on October 7th that Canada would contribute forces to the international force being formed to conduct a campaign against terrorism.

"We are part of an unprecedented coalition of nations that has come together to fight the threat of terrorism ... Canada will be part of this coalition every step of the way." -- Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chretien.

Now, I do not disagree that the long-term success of the Afghan nation will rely on locally-owned reconstruction and development efforts, but I am not confident that those efforts can really be successful without a secure and stable civil society.

Whizzing back to 2006 we find ourselves still fighting the good fight!

Canada has assisted in the collection, storage and decommissioning of 10,000 heavy weapons left in Afghanistan including artillery, tanks and rocket launchers, used in decades of conflict in the country.

Canada has helped clear about one third of the estimated 10 to 15 million mines in Afghanistan.

Canada has loaned money to over 140,000 people in Afghanistan.

Canada has helped train the Afghan police and army.

But unfortunately, by the looks of this, this and this, Afghanistan is not nearly secure or stable yet.

So Mr. Dosanjh will have to back off of the Ralph Goodalesque Bushian, Rumsfeldian rhetoric and remember that at one point, the Liberal Party initiated Canada MILITARY particiaption in Afghanistan.

Terrorism will not be tolerated here at home and abroad, terrorists cannot lay claim to entire nations and that by the gun and by the heart, Canadians are committed to fighting for freedom and prosperity around the world.

Everytime he beaks off as the dubious Liberal Party D-Fence critic, Mr. Dosanjh does Canadians, the men and women of the armed forces, and his own Party's past attempts at growing a backbone a disservice.

Bring on the Dion frontbench - it certainly would have to work hard to be worse than this group of ninnies!
 
Has he flipfloped as of today? Will his "withdrawal with honour" prior to 2009 include running from Kandahar and leaving aid-workers to the mercy of the Taliban? Can he even make that timeline?

(Election Apr 07, three months handover, Sep annoucement, 3 months coord with other NATO nations for the "honourable" bit, 6 month drawdown tour in Kandahar = mid-2008, and that's being generous with the timelines)
 
The concept of a Marshal Plan is fallacious.  Europe was being restored “back” to something it had been.  Europeans were educated and capable of doing most "reconstruction" themselves.  Afghanistan is not under “reconstruction”, it’s under “construction”.  Furthermore, there is no clear reference point that you are trying to go back to; you are in fact reaching out to something that has never been.  You are building from scratch.

To complicate things you have an uneducated population that is entrenched in some of the world’s most fundamentalist Islam, is traumatized from almost constant war, and is ignorant of virtually all else except the local region.  There is no comparison between this and Europe 1945.

As well, Europe did not have an enormous insurgency to deal with.  The enemy had been totally and completely crushed, with total war.  There is no hope of this happening, especially since Pakistan is the new “Cambodia”, with Iran waiting for the US to pull out of Iraq so that it can destabilize Afghanistan as well.

Dion is naïve and his “plan” is not a plan, but just words that have little relation to reality.  But, like a good politician, he is keeping the back door open so that he can pull the plug and run when and if things begin to fall apart.

As far as poppies.  Afghanistan has never had a major poppy crop until this summer… never.  That means that the farmers don’t need it, and do not need compensation for it.  It’s a mute point anyway, because the poppies will be sprayed this spring.  I think there’d be an argument for the poppies if Afghan farmers had depended on them in the past, but they didn’t.  In fact, under the Taliban, poppy crops got you executed.

The greatest danger of poppies is that now the Taliban have about 2 billion bucks to play with .. and I can think of some pretty deadly fly-by-wire technology that they can now buy.  Keep in mind the nasty surprise that Hezbollah had for the IDF amour columns.  Keep in mind the alarm bells being sounded by every NATO member in the South.

Call me a cynic, but I think that the Afghan farmer’s heart will go to the biggest bad ass … the one who owns the night and his life.  It’s the way it’s been for decades and I don’t think that bribery will help.  Removal of the Taliban will though, and that’s the hardest thing to do and the one thing that Dion and most NATO members are not willing to comit to.
 
As far as poppies.  Afghanistan has never had a major poppy crop until this summer… never.  That means that the farmers don’t need it, and do not need compensation for it.

Stroy from back in 2001: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3071809/

Last year, Afghanistan was the world’s largest opium producer, with 75 percent of the world’s crop, a staggering output of some 3,500 tons of one of the most addictive drugs on earth.

But with farmers facing an unending drought and a poor wheat harvest this year, Callahan said it’s too early to tell whether the Taliban can keep the country from returning to the lucrative poppy crop.

Many farmers are already yearning for the good old days.

“We want to grow poppies again,” said 55-year-old Sardar Mohammed, an out-of-work field laborer, pointing to barren land once filled with Afghanistan’s cash crop. “Poppies were our survival.”
 
It is my understanding that opium production in Afghanistan did not become significant until about 1999 ... that means that it was a big deal for only a few years.  Until about 1999 most opium came from Central America and the Golden Triangle. Traditionally, it was not a significant part of the Afghan economy until the initial Taliban reign.  What the MSNBC article makes clear, is that poppies are lucrative, but it doesn't make it clear for how long farmers actually depended on the poppy crop.  Only for a short time during the the Taliban reign, were poppies the mainstay of Afghan agriculture.

The Taliban tried to eradicate poppy production after encouraging it; it looks like it may be that over-production dropped the street price so Mullah Omar ordered poppy production banned to increase demand.

The Taliban, having taken control of 90% of the country, actively encouraged poppy cultivation. With this, they not only fulfilled their promises and obligations to their partners - the regional mafia - but also increased their own desperately needed income by imposing taxes on local farmers and through subsidies by international organised crime gangs. According to the above UN source, Afghanistan saw a bumper opium crop of 4,600 million tonnes in 1999, which was the height of the Taliban rule in Afghanistan.

According to a Swiss security publication, 'SicherheitsForum' (April 2006, pp:56-57), this resulted in supply exceeding demand and a drop in the high-street price of heroin and morphine in the West, endangering the profitability of European drug smugglers. To stop this trend, Westerns international drug barons demanded a reduction in supply. The regional mafia instructed the Taliban accordingly. It is alleged in the report that, Obeying his financiers, Mullah Omar (the Taliban leader) issued a ban on poppy cultivation "on religious grounds", resulting in one of the lowest opium production levels in 2002.


http://www.answers.com/topic/opium-production-in-afghanistan

There are two lessons here:

1. Poppies were only sporadically a cash crop in Afghanistan.

2. At current production rates, poppies will likely become worthless ... in fact, it may be that this year's crop has already flooded the world market.  If the 1999 crop did so even if it was much smaller, imagine the effect of the 2006 crop on opium prices.

Thinking that allowing poppy production will somehow fix Afghan lives economically is falacious.  Where, for that matter, have poppy farmers flurished?  Turkey?  Burma?  Poppies are subject to free market forces, and success in production means depressed prices which means more poverty of Afghans.  You can't build a poppy economy based on 2 bumper crops (1999 and 2006)



 
Interesting that fuzzy. 

I wonder what the price per buzz ratio is like between opiates and say something like ecstasy.  Is the opium viable if it drops to the value of a mass-market buzz?
 
Once a person starts talking drug economics, the whole debate seems to change; especially the buzz per cost ratio  :blotto:

I know that locally in Saskatoon, opium in the form of morphine is the drug of choice, but I suspect that opium in the form of heroin is the drug of choice elsewhere.  I couldn't even begin to guess which gives the best buzz and gives addicts the best results.  I can see though, how drowning the market in cheap morphine or heroin would undermine the Taliban/drug lord relationship.  At the same time though, Afghan farmers would lose their poppy cash crop because it'd be worthless.  They might actually consider other crops because poppies aren't worth it.

Here's a thought: a drug market saturated in cheap morphine and heroin means less crime for us and fewer dollars for the Taliban.  Crude, but perhaps the best solution.  Let the Afghans bury the world in opium; it'll destroy the world price and make our addicts less likely to rob and prostitute because the stuff will be so cheap.  The $300/per day habit may become the $20/day habit and Mullah Omar will have fewer dollars to shop for fly-by-wire goodies.
 
FuzzyLogic said:
...
There are two lessons here:

1. Poppies were only sporadically a cash crop in Afghanistan.

2. At current production rates, poppies will likely become worthless ... in fact, it may be that this year's crop has already flooded the world market.  If the 1999 crop did so even if it was much smaller, imagine the effect of the 2006 crop on opium prices.

Thinking that allowing poppy production will somehow fix Afghan lives economically is falacious.  Where, for that matter, have poppy farmers flurished?  Turkey?  Burma?  Poppies are subject to free market forces, and success in production means depressed prices which means more poverty of Afghans.  You can't build a poppy economy based on 2 bumper crops (1999 and 2006)

While I agree, broadly, with what FuzzyLogic says, I would add two qualifiers:

1. Poppies grow, in Afghanistan's poorly irrigated, semi-arid valleys - and not a whole lot of other cash crops do as well.  (In fact, I think I read somewhere, some time, poppies do not like too much water or too much heat, etc.)  The poppy also requires little care, I think; the farmer can run and hide when the Taliban or ISAF come calling and shooting and reurn days, even weeks later to find his crop still alive and well.

2. I agree that poppies will not "fix Afghans lives" but our current aim ought to be to mitigate the harm which everyone, Taliban, ISAF, etc is doing to those "Afghan lives" and I cannot see how eradicating the poppy crop helps.

Adam Smith will, eventually sort out Afghan agriculture more efficiently and more humanely than any mob of Euro-American bureaucrats, until he does let's try to let the poor Afghan farmer put some food on the table.  Do away with (kill, assassinate, etc) the drug lords then buy the farmers' opium crops at fair market prices.
 
Some speculation:

We want to stop farmers from growing poppies
We want to separate the farmers from the Taliban and drug lords
We want to cut off the flow of funds to the ACM's

Just go around telling the farmers how much money the crops are worth to the Drug lords, and let them figure out if they are getting a fair price for the crops. If angry farmers are battling the drug lords for a bigger cut of the profits, many of the above aims will be met. Once we get in gear with some sort of substitute crop which they can grow and prosper with, then the incentive to switch is much greater. (Since they grow the daemon weed over there as well, converting them to industrial hemp production should be easy)
 
Duceppe has humiliated himself on Afghanistan
The Gazette Published: Friday, December 22, 2006
Article Link

For the second time this fall, Gilles Duceppe has been too clever for his own good. Now on the Afghanistan issue, as earlier on the question of Quebec as a nation, the Bloc Quebecois leader has stumbled over his own little tripwires. In the process, he has appeared to be a man interested in polls rather than principles.

In Quebec City 10 days ago, Duceppe abruptly flipped his party's longtime position, announcing he might try to topple the minority Conservative government in January unless it changed the mission from one of combat to a reconstruction effort.

But Pierre Paquette, the Bloc's finance critic, quickly backtracked, denying that Duceppe had ever issued the threat "for the short term." He added next spring's federal "budget will come first."

Then, Bloc MP Claude Bachand reiterated Duceppe's original version to La Presse, repeating that the non-confidence motion could come first. Duceppe's face-saving parting shot this week was that he would not force an early vote unless "provoked."

Sovereignist leaders love to discover cases in which Quebec is "humiliated" by Ottawa. But in this case Duceppe has humiliated himself, in the process lending credibility to Prime Minister Stephen Harper's contention that Duceppe and the Bloc are "playing political games on the backs of our soldiers."

It's meaningless to rebuild a school or hospital when terrorists are just around the corner waiting for you to finish so they can bomb it - again. For that reason, the military campaign in Afghanistan is inseparable from the reconstruction drive. Duceppe also knows Harper's government set aside $1 billion over 10 years in its last budget to help rebuild Afghanistan, not a negligible sum.

In any event, Duceppe's threat proved to be empty. Not only has he backed away from it, but Liberal leader Stephane Dion rebuffed the idea of toppling the Conservatives over the issue. The Liberals want no part of this touchy issue, if only because on Afghanistan their caucus is the most divided in the House.

Dion argues the mission is failing to accomplish its objective of improving Afghans' lot. But he can hardly rattle a sabre about it, considering it was his party that boosted the Canadian contingent from 850 peacekeepers in Kabul to 2,500 combat troops in Taliban-riddled Kandahar last year. Dion also complains that Harper ramrodded an extension of the mission through Parliament, a complaint that is true enough but that lacks sting, since the Liberals never gave MPs a vote on the combat role in the first place.
More on link

 
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