Directives to military chaplains urge expunging God, religion from Remembrance Day, public ceremonies

[Jarnhamar]

CAF seems to be going through a mental health crisis, especially with our new members. We need more Chaplains.

 

[Booter]

If the government drops the incredibly stupid “thoughts and prayers” responses we can talk about where else we should scrub religion

 

[Brad Sallows]

CAF seems to be going through a mental health crisis, especially with our new members. We need more Chaplains.

Surely a mental health crisis would suggest more psychiatrists and counselors?

 

[AmmoTech90]

The difference between a Priest and a Minister perhaps? A Chaplain is the keeper of the Chapel, a place for religious devotions. A Priest is an accredited leader of the devotions, schooled in the mysteries. A Minister may or may not be a Priest, and may or may not be accredited. While the Minister can lead services on Sunday most of the week is spent ministering to the local flock - essentially the community's original social worker.

The Minister was responsible for the Health, Education and Welfare of the community, assisting the poor, the sick and the children.

We can debate the role of the priests and their prayers but their is an ongoing and demonstrable need for ministers regardless of what gods they personally celebrate.

Being married to an Anglican priest who is also a chaplain and a minister I can say that almost everything you have said is wrong.
It may have been correct in the past but it is not true now, and that's all that matters when debating a contemporary issue.

 

[Kirkhill]

Surely a mental health crisis would suggest more psychiatrists and counselors?

It depends on whose authority the counselor is working under. Some people may feel more reassured by the Colleges of Psychiatrists and Psychologists. Some may feel more reassured by someone from a Seminary.

 

[Kirkhill]

Being married to an Anglican priest who is also a chaplain and a minister I can say that almost everything you have said is wrong.
It may have been correct in the past but it is not true now, and that's all that matters when debating a contemporary issue.

I'm sorry if I caused offence. I was merely trying to parse the vocabulary. I know that priests are also ministers and chaplains. At least the best ones are. I stand by my position that the parish priest, or minister, was the original social worker.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Surely a mental health crisis would suggest more psychiatrists and counselors?

Those too.
Currently you can see a Chaplain tomorrow, psychiatrist probably around 2-8 months from tomorrow.

Vastly different job description but I think Chaplains can catch and deal with (or triage) problems before they reach the "no military environment, work from home" stage.

I also like Chaplains in units to act as deterrent for shitty behavior from leaders.

 

[AmmoTech90]

I'm sorry if I caused offence. I was merely trying to parse the vocabulary. I know that priests are also ministers and chaplains. At least the best ones are. I stand by my position that the parish priest, or minister, was the original social worker.

No offence, it's just using outdated definitions for a modern problem is not helpful. The last place a chaplain should be is in a chapel. They have to be out in their community.
My wife is a RCMP chaplain and more than half her time is spent on ride alongs or meetings in coffee shops. Det visits to see the boss and civilian members.

 

[YZT580]

In all of this, has anyone asked the veterans what they would like to have in the agenda during the one day that honours the friends that they buried? We, the civilians in attendance, are present to thank the troops who didn't come back and the best way we can do that is by standing silently and salute the men and women who were there and we should do that by applying their rules: they earned that right.

 

[dapaterson]

No offence, it's just using outdated definitions for a modern problem is not helpful. The last place a chaplain should be is in a chapel. They have to be out in their community.
My wife is a RCMP chaplain and more than half her time is spent on ride alongs or meetings in coffee shops. Det visits to see the boss and civilian members.

Cigarettes, Coffee, and Justice: The Unusual Holiness of Martin Royackers, SJ ​

Chain-smoking, dishevelled, even hearing confessions in a bar: Fr. Martin Royackers, SJ, never ceased to amaze. According to several sources, he rarely made a good first impression. Yet this Canadian Jesuit with a razor-sharp mind was a strong advocate for human rights, deeply committed to social justice, and firmly rooted in his relationship with God. He died in 2001 in Jamaica, murdered in front of his church for reasons still unknown, but probably related to his apostolate.

Cigarettes, Coffee, and Justice: The Unusual Holiness of Martin Royackers, SJ  - Canada Province

Chain-smoking, dishevelled, even hearing confessions in a bar: Fr. Martin Royackers, SJ, never ceased to amaze. According to several sources, he rarely made a good first impression.

jesuits.ca

 

[Kilted]

The difference between a Priest and a Minister perhaps? A Chaplain is the keeper of the Chapel, a place for religious devotions. A Priest is an accredited leader of the devotions, schooled in the mysteries. A Minister may or may not be a Priest, and may or may not be accredited. While the Minister can lead services on Sunday most of the week is spent ministering to the local flock - essentially the community's original social worker.

The Minister was responsible for the Health, Education and Welfare of the community, assisting the poor, the sick and the children.

We can debate the role of the priests and their prayers but their is an ongoing and demonstrable need for ministers regardless of what gods they personally celebrate.

That really depends on denomination and in what context you are using the word Chaplain. Many people use the words Chaplain/Padre interchangeable. Many padres are in fact ordained ministers, while some such as all female Roman Catholic Padres would only be considered chaplains outside of the military as they are not allowed to be ordained.

 

[dapaterson]

That really depends on denomination and in what context you are using the word Chaplain. Many people use the words Chaplain/Padre interchangeable. Many padres are in fact ordained ministers, while some such as all female Roman Catholic Padres would only be considered chaplains outside of the military as they are not allowed to be ordained.

Now we're going to have to start debating the Mariavites?

 

[Kirkhill]

That really depends on denomination and in what context you are using the word Chaplain. Many people use the words Chaplain/Padre interchangeable. Many padres are in fact ordained ministers, while some such as all female Roman Catholic Padres would only be considered chaplains outside of the military as they are not allowed to be ordained.

Now we're going to have to start debating the Mariavites?

No. We're not.

Soldiers, like any community, need comfort. Chaplains, or priests, or ministers, pastors, rabbis, imams or shamans, psychologists, psychiatrists or social workers are all ultimately in the business of comforting the afflicted. And that comfort can take many forms and depends on the needs of the individual. Some folks prefer their local bartender.

There is a reason that America got out of the established church business.

 

[childs56]

This is about Commando Chaplains in Afghanistan. The series talks about the importance of their job, service and providing a outlet for all members while in high stress environments. With out their service many more members would be in worse shape mentally.

What this government is doing is getting rid of Canadian identity, they are trying every way they can with out saying it outright.

 

[btrudy]

We're forgetting the law of unintended consequences: fewer people attend making Remembrance Day less relevant. People don't attend Remembrance Day services because they're religious, they attend because the feel a sense of comfort. You are all correct that the specific words don't really matter, but having some recognizable religious undertone to the event is what people expect.

Having well meaning words of remembrance can still hit that comforting tone, without alienating those who are irreligious.

If their enthusiasm to curb Christians was equally applied to Hindu's and Muslims then I would be OK. But there is far less enthusiasm there.

This is just nonsensical. At no point in my career have I encountered prayers that were obviously Hindu or Muslim in nature. I certainly can't say the same about obvious Christian-derived prayers.

No one's trying to curb Hindu or Muslim practices in CAF ceremonies / events because there's nothing there to curb.

 

[Happy Guy]

When I attend this year's Remembrance Day ceremony in Ottawa, I'll wait to see and hear what the Chaplain, Rabbi and Iman say in their remarks. These people are far more educated and erudite than me, so I'm hoping that they will be able to express their words of comfort, without alienating anyone, to the families and friends who lost their loved ones.

I know that when I lost friends and peers in the Balkans conflict and Afghanistan, the padres went out to help people who were suffering - they certainly did help me, a self-professed Agnostic.

 

[RangerRay]

As someone who isn’t religious at all, I’ve never been offended by a padre invoking God at a Remembrance Day service.

If they started proselytizing, then I would probably be offended. But I have never witnessed that.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I also like Chaplains in units to act as deterrent for shitty behavior from leaders.

One of their most important roles, IMHO.

When Cpl Bloggins can't get leave to go see his baby being born because his CO/RSM is a petty tyrant, sometimes a 'higher power' needs to intervene on his behalf

 

[Kilted]

The way things are going, I'm honestly waiting for the day that the CAF tells the family of a member killed in action/died while on duty that they aren't allowed to have his funeral in a church.

 

[btrudy]

The way things are going, I'm honestly waiting for the day that the CAF tells the family of a member killed in action/died while on duty that they aren't allowed to have his funeral in a church.

Dude you dropped your tin foil hat.