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DND404 how long can they be suspended?

Kibagami

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Hi, I'm not sure if this is the right section to post it but if it's not feel free to move it.

I got in the army in 2005 at 24years old and I pass my DND404 (on a LSVW) about 6 month after i finish basic, at that time I didn't have a civilian driver license and had really little driving experience and even after getting my 404 I didn't drive any vehicle either military or civ. (Even I was surprise I manage to pass it with so little experience)

In summer 2007 I finally got my Civ License and buy my first car, after that I switched trade for MSE Op, I didn't pass my course at first (failed on the 3 tonnes Sterling last driving test) but did manage to pass it the second time around and was finally QL3 qualify by the end of 2008 (took over a year of waiting between the 2 courses).
Unfortunately the base I was posted to made me do really little driving and my primary job was mostly to inspect and wash vehicles that where coming back, I estimate that over the years I was there I have driving less then 1000km with military vehicles!

Then in 2009, an officer that I drove to the airport put a complain again me about my driving, after that they decided to do remedial trainings to see what was wrong with my driving. They found that I had a few problems like difficulties to anticipate traffics, signal too soon or too late and a few thing in that order. After that they decided to suspend my DND404 saying that i was a "risk" and even after i fight for over a year they still force me change occupation.

Now it's been over 2 years since my 404 was supended and I'm still fighting to get my trade back, I have drove my car for 4years and over 80k km now and never got into any accident, never got arrested, never lose points, never got tickets not even a parking ticket! While I don't believe I'm THE perfect driver, I believe I'm no longer a big "risk" as I used to be and I'm wondering if they can still keep my 404 suspended and if I can get it back (would most likely have to redo a driving test) which hopefully would help me get back my trade.

I found this site http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/cfa-oaf/019-14-eng.asp which apply to people who have either lose there civ license or got into accident, but I'm not sure if it would apply to my case. From what I understand It said that only the 3rd suspension should be permanent, is it normal for me to have mine suspended indefinitely even if it's only my first suspension???
 
Have you talked to Base MSE Safety about getting a new test done?  Bring in a copy of your Driver Abstract and ask about getting tested.

MM
 
If the folks at TN, find you high risk, I doubt they will give it back to you. I"ve seen many folks come in this trade, then re-muster. Just because they are a risk to themself, people around them, DND and the general population. They cost the  tax payer too much money.

If you race around in a staff car while doing a VIP detail... what you going to do when you have 44 souls on your bus? Going to flip it over due to high speed?

Or what about driving a T/T... take a turn too quick and your taking that pole with you.

Yes they give us cool toys to play with. But you have to be mature and have that extra sense while being a MSE Op.

IT'S NOT A RACE.

Regards,
TN2IC
 
TN2IC said:
If the folks at TN, find you high risk, I doubt they will give it back to you. I"ve seen many folks come in this trade, then re-muster. Just because they are a risk to themself, people around them, DND and the general population. They cost the  tax payer too much money.

If you race around in a staff car while doing a VIP detail... what you going to do when you have 44 souls on your bus? Going to flip it over due to high speed?

Or what about driving a T/T... take a turn too quick and your taking that pole with you.

Yes they give us cool toys to play with. But you have to be mature and have that extra sense while being a MSE Op.

IT'S NOT A RACE.

Regards,
TN2IC

Let's not jump to conclusions. from the information he has shared, it doesn't exactly look like he was given an opportunity to practice the primary skill of his trade and received in-unit supervision and training to ensure his skills were maintained. We may only have one side of the story, but it's still not fair to jump to the assumption that he might be "a risk to himself, people around him, DND and the general population."

 
At any time did you have to complete remedial driving training (DND 416A) that had been signed off by a MSE Safety Supervisor and the BnTO? If they suspended your DND 404's this would be signed off as remedial driver trg with so many kms/hrs of driving where you had difficulties. Are you PRes or RegF? Have you been though a Driver Progress Review Board about this? Or has the Career manager put you thru a Admin review?

PM me as I l now most of the Master Drivers in the CF.

Mods - can you put this in  CSS - Log
 
TN2IC said:
If the folks at TN, find you high risk, I doubt they will give it back to you. I"ve seen many folks come in this trade, then re-muster. Just because they are a risk to themself, people around them, DND and the general population. They cost the  tax payer too much money.

If you race around in a staff car while doing a VIP detail... what you going to do when you have 44 souls on your bus? Going to flip it over due to high speed?

Or what about driving a T/T... take a turn too quick and your taking that pole with you.

Yes they give us cool toys to play with. But you have to be mature and have that extra sense while being a MSE Op.

IT'S NOT A RACE.

Regards,
TN2IC

I'm actually the complete opposite of what you just said!
And that's probably one of the reason that didn't help me, since I'm taking my time when I maneuver big vehicle that I'm not used to drive
then they think I'm lacking confidence, but what do they want me to do? take the risk of crashing a big 100k$+ truck into a fence or worse a brick wall
just because they want me to back it in like 15sec?
On a side note, since I buy my car 4 years ago I have always try to back it into every parking or driveway I could which is about 3-4 times a days and
I always use only the mirrors to do it (my car got a really high trunk so I can't see #$%@ over my shoulders anyway),
It's not the same as a 3 tonnes or HLVW of course, but it will probably be useful training if i ever get back my trade.

Also they keep saying to adapt your speed to the situation, but then they say i lack confidence when I drive 40 in a 50 zone in a town where i barely have enough space for my 3 tonnes sterling between the middle lane and the cars park on the side of the road, did they also forgot that those vehicles have like twice or more the braking distance of a car?

To answer to FDtrucker, I'm RegF, yes i got a remedial training and after that i have been through a DPRB, following DPRB decision i was force to change trade, right now I completed my QL3 for my new trade but I'm still fighting with Ottawa (DGMC..something, I don't have the name close to me right now) to get my trade back.


 
I think it would depend on the nature of the complaint that was submitted specifically what he complained about.

Also, you mentioned that they suspended your 404 AFTER your remedial training, so they deemed you unfit to drive after you received extra work. What exactley was your remedial training? Did you get very much road time or was it parking lot? Did they make you redo a DDC?

I mean, youre now QL3 in your new trade. And apparently many experienced MSE Op's deemed you unfit for the trade (not saying you are, its just their verdict) So with that all in the nutshell, I think it highly unlikely you would win a grievance, but if its your dream then fight for it to the end for sure. Just dont become jaded if you dont win.
 
I'm curious as to what base this was at that denied you your 404's?
 
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