Does being part of military make you 'right wing'?

[Roy Harding]

I took the test.

Economic Left/Right: -1.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.69

Seems to me we did this a year or two ago - I'll see if I can find the thread.



Roy

Edited to add:  I found TWO threads on this Political Compass.

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/32697.0.html

and

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/3814.0.html


It's too early in the morning here on the West Coast for my brain to be in gear (I'm still on my first coffee) - I'll see what I can do about a merge or something along that line tonight.

RHH

 

[OldSolduer]

I took the test too:

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -1.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.74


Apparently I'm very slightly Libertarian/Left.....

 

[PuckChaser]

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -2.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.87

Kinda wierd, since I consider myself a Conservative.

 

[mellian]

...I doubt many would appreciate working with someone who for years actively worked against what they do for a living) and would be best kept to herself.

Being anti-war is not necessarily not the same thing as being anti-military. May not be the case for many, but there is a distinction. I call it 'militarist pacifist'.

Mellian, next time ask your leftie friends if they think it is ok to chop off a women's head for teaching little girls how to read?  Sometimes, if you think that sh#t like that is wrong then you have to do more than watch a Michael Moore film. 

That is not exactly the kind of question one can use to determine political leanings, and I know many who identify more on the left who do not like Michael Moore and his films (apart from its entertainment value).

 

[aesop081]

I call it 'militarist pacifist'.

Call it whatever you want. A soldier's job is to wage war. Anything else is just a sideshow until there is another war. Beleiving otherwise is beleiving its possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

 

[mellian]

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -2.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.87

Kinda wierd, since I consider myself a Conservative.

Not exactly the most accurate, considering some of the questions.



Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -4.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.38

 

[mellian]

Call it whatever you want. A soldier's job is to wage war. Anything else is just a sideshow until there is another war. Beleiving otherwise is beleiving its possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Of course, but does not mean we cannot discourage war from happening as much possible thought. Carrot first, and then the big stick if that fails.

 

[OldSolduer]

Of course, but does not mean we cannot discourage war from happening as much possible thought. Carrot first, and then the big stick if that fails.

True, but the discouragement of war is for the politicians and diplomats, not the military.
We ARE the big stick. We are the ones who must follow through when the diplomats and politicians run out of options.

 

[2 Cdo]

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: +3.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: +2.67

Just about where I thought it would be!

 

[SeaKingTacco]

mellian-

make no mistake that, if you embark on a career in the Military, being a pacifist is not an option.  As both Cdn Aviator and Old Soldier have pointed out, that not fighting is the choice of the politician, not us in uniform. Once you put on the uniform, not matter what job you do, you will contribute to putting ordnance on to a target and probably killing people.  You will not necessarily be asked your opinion about the "rightness" or "wrongness" of the the whole thing. That said, you can rest assured that you will not have to do anything that would be considered manifestly unlawful.

Make sure that you can square up with your conscience, before you join, that you will be part of the Canadian Government's "monopoly on violence".

 

[Loachman]

True, but the discouragement of war is for the politicians and diplomats, not the military.
We ARE the big stick.

The military is definitely part of the "discouragement" function.

The "big stick" can deter (preferably) attack, and deal with it should deterrence fail.

Politicians and diplomats who lack a "big stick" (as many do, figuratively) cannot discourage anything, war included.

 

[Loachman]

... if you embark on a career in the Military, being a pacifist is not an option.

I disagree. I'm a pacifist.

I only differ from most who use that term in the methods of creating and maintaining peace, and I recognize that sometimes a little violence is necessary to do that.

Damned labels again...

 

[Edward Campbell]

I define myself as a classic liberal; I believe John Stuart Mill said most of what needed to be said on the topic; I was, I think, a fairly typical soldier, too, in my attitudes.

Here is my score on the "test:"

Economic Left/Right: 5.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.13

Now, part of my economic attitude may have evolved over the years, as my savings and investments helped me migrate from "worker" to "capitalist" and I suspect I am less libertarian than I was 25 or 50 years ago.

But there are a few things in which I have always (at least as far as I can remember) believed: the absolute equality of all people - as individuals and at and under the law; the absolute right of each individual to life, liberty, freedom of conscience and property; and the need to protect the individual's rights from the constant depredations of "collectives" like governments and churches.

As someone else said, "left" and 'right' are not very useful points for discussing the personal, political spectrum.

Some of us have discussed this whole thing before, here on Army.ca, and I supported a diagram of a gravity well as an appropriate model - with classical liberals and conservatives orbiting, safely, at the top while the illiberals fall, steadily and surely, towards the bottom.

 

 

[chris_log]

By "here", I actually meant on Army.ca - but the thought is equally applicable to the CF in general.

I believe the rest of your clarification boils down to common dog, not to mention common courtesy - whether in the CF or not.
For instance:  I'm not a religious man - but I don't throw that fact in the face of people who are.  And I CERTAINLY don't argue theology with Padre's.

I agree that many topics need to be left alone until one knows one's audience fairly well - and for that reason one should refrain from "hitting a unit then regalling people with tales of your anti-war protests ".


Roy

Thats exactly what I was getting at; not everyone may share your views and it is common courtesy to keep any but the most mainstream views out of the workplace. I got put in a very awkward situation in my first few weeks at my new unit due to a (very frank) 'discussion' about the mission in Afghanistan and someone's views on it.

So for the OP, while your past history of anti-war protesting and anti-Bushy-ness won't cause your career to come grinding to a halt I suggest that you keep that part of your past to yourself out of common courtesy to everyone else (as you may have noticed, you may legitimize your actions as 'militant pacifism' but some others serving don't quite see it that way). I've found that sex, politics and religion are topics best left to yourself in the workplace. There's a time and place for outward displays of the aforementioned, and thats called university. 

 

[OldSolduer]

Better to keep quiet and be thought a fool....


than to speak up and REMOVE all doubt.

:blotto:

 

[Roy Harding]

Thats exactly what I was getting at; not everyone may share your views and it is common courtesy to keep any but the most mainstream views out of the workplace. I got put in a very awkward situation in my first few weeks at my new unit due to a (very frank) 'discussion' about the mission in Afghanistan and someone's views on it.

So for the OP, while your past history of anti-war protesting and anti-Bushy-ness won't cause your career to come grinding to a halt I suggest that you keep that part of your past to yourself out of common courtesy to everyone else (as you may have noticed, you may legitimize your actions as 'militant pacifism' but some others serving don't quite see it that way). I've found that sex, politics and religion are topics best left to yourself in the workplace. There's a time and place for outward displays of the aforementioned, and thats called university. 

I understand the intent of your post - and it's veracity when you're the FNG at a new unit.  But you'd be surprised at the depth and breadth of discussions held in the unit canteen - or in a ten man tent in the arctic - or on an OP at zero dark thirty.  I wouldn't be surprised to hear about the same thing occurring amongst aircrew on a long mission, or sailors on a boring watch somewhere.

Military folk (especially when deployed) quickly bond, and subsequently are able to discuss a wide diversity subjects between themselves - USUALLY intelligently and thoughtfully.  Milnet.ca , I think, illustrates this tendency.

That being said - the FNG at a unit, as you pointed out - needs to test the waters VERY gently at first.  (Milnet.ca, I think, illustrates THIS tendency as well) 


Roy


Roy

 

[chris_log]

I understand the intent of your post - and it's veracity when you're the FNG at a new unit.  But you'd be surprised at the depth and breadth of discussions held in the unit canteen - or in a ten man tent in the arctic - or on an OP at zero dark thirty.  I wouldn't be surprised to hear about the same thing occurring amongst aircrew on a long mission, or sailors on a boring watch somewhere.

I completely agree, among a group of close friends or a tightly knit group of peers those types of discussions are good to go in the types of situations you mentioned. I myself have had said discussins while trying to stay awake in a badly dug trench, etc.

It's all about time and place and who you're with.

Although (again to the OP) I'd still be leery about telling people about your participation in anti-war protests (which, being in Canada I assume, would have had a strong anti-Afghanistan bias). People won't apprecite knowing you were working against what they sacrificed for. Thats just my view, of course. Feel free to express yourself openly about your past, but be aware there are some things that won't earn you popularity points (being an FNG or not). Politics, religion, sex etc are, as Roy mentioned, topics best left among friends, close peers etc. However, I still think that SOME things are best kept to yourself; like your anti-military past (yes, I understand how you justified it as being 'militant pacisfism' (kind of an oxymoron I think), but others will not be as understanding or willing to accept that view...myself included).

Just ut of curiosity, why did you switch over to the dark side (the CF)?

 

[mellian]

True, but the discouragement of war is for the politicians and diplomats, not the military.
We ARE the big stick. We are the ones who must follow through when the diplomats and politicians run out of options.

Yes, which I would like to be part of. 'Militarist Pacifist', will not start the fight/war, but will finish it.

I disagree. I'm a pacifist.

I only differ from most who use that term in the methods of creating and maintaining peace, and I recognize that sometimes a little violence is necessary to do that.

Damned labels again...

That is why I came up with the term 'Militarist Pacifist', but again just another silly label...

 

[aesop081]

'Militarist Pacifist', will not start the fight/war, but will finish it.

Again, that will not be your decision. If the Government decides to start a war, they will not seek your opinion.

 

[mellian]

Just ut of curiosity, why did you switch over to the dark side (the CF)?

Because I am goth and already hang out with those of the dark side? (joking)

Like I pointed out earlier, just because I am anti-war does not mean I am anti-military. I never was anti-military, and always held the view that we, as a country/nation, should always have and maintain a strong and highly trained military as a deterrent, defense, and emergencies. Anti-war aspect only kicks mainly on the point of view that we should not get involve in wars with anyone that does not threaten our security and safety of our nation, and only fight wars if every diplomatic as been tried or/and 'they' started it. The anti-war Protests I was part of was mainly against the Iraq War anyway.

Apart from that, I always had an interest in joining the Canadian Forces since I have been in the Air Cadets at least over a decade ago, and would have probably tried soon after high school if it was not for other aspects of my life. Since those aspects are not obstacles anymore and even have half of university Bachelor complete, seems like a good time as any to apply now. Especially considering I cannot think of anything I would like to do as a career.