Does Canada need a Military?

[Ubique RCA]

Why would we as a sovern nation need a military. We don't need to protect our borders, is ludicrous statement. We need to show that we will protect not just our land but the people that are in it. I think that the CDS has stated this clearly.

"We are not the Public Service of Canada," he declared. "We are not just another department. We are the Canadian Forces and our job is to be able to kill people."
Quote : CDS Gen. HILLIER R.

As an example of our troops abilities, forces that were in Afghanistan requested snipers, lots of snipers. but not just any snipers specifically Canadian Snipers. Prime example is the longest recorded confirmed Kill, by a PPCLI sniper observer team @ 2450 m

It doesn't really matter if someone leaves the CF and goes to an other nation's military, that has no bearing on Canada as a whole. What does matter is that we have a force that is capable of returning fire if the situation warranted. Peaceful means of solving a situation is always the best course to take but it is a necessary evil that if things hit the fan, the muscle no matter how big or small needs to be used.

As Canadians we are known for our peacefulness, and thus in a great % of the world are well liked.  The Canadian Military has been known for it's "Peace keeping." The world as PM Pearson knew it is no longer and the days of "Peacekeeping" are gone. In no situation that we go to as a military are we mearly peace keepers. I am sure that everyone has heard of the 3 block war concept. In todays world we as a military are needed to help stabilize regions from colapse. In one block we may be fighting the EN the next providing Aid and then next rebuilding the comunity. If this is the way that the Government is showing/growing  its international relations then so be it. I am not afraid to go to a foreign country to help in anyway possible, and if I am called a peacekeeper then so be it but I am a Canadian Peacekeeper and am proud to know that we are there to help.

There are many things that are messed up in our military and many are in it for their own reasons. But the will to serve and the idea of duty before self is in everyone no matter how small. To sum up Canada needs a military, to Comfort, Protect and Provide, in what ever fashion Canada or the world may need.



Just as an aside if you have a chance please have a read. It is an excellent article that outlines Canada's and Canadian's thought's on peacekeeping then and now. Or what it should be.


http://server09.densan.ca/archivenews/050906/cit/050906bn.htm

 

[Meridian]

Now, I'm sure someone can show my argument as being unfounded, or maybe just total common sense, but, I have always tended to beleive that Canadians are just not excitable people.

They do not see a need for something unless its smack in their face every single day.  When's the last time Canadians have actually FELT the repercussions of all these wars we are fighting in a very tangible and real way?  Its been a while (comparatively speaking). Instead, Canadians want Healthcare, lower taxes and better education to make a more comfortable and "enlightened" living.  All things that canadians live and breathe every day.  The Realities of war are (fortunately, or unfortunately, depending on what you are arguing for) are far, far away from the realities that everyday Canadians face... You ask a poor newfoundlander fisherman or a struggling Sask farmer why we shouldnt spend more on stabilization missions to africa and you will get a very direct response. That doesn't mean they don't think if we had the resouces it wouldnt be nice to help africa out... it just means priorities are priorities.

I do not personally believe that Canadians will give all that much of a damn or believe in the need of an active, professional military force until something happens on Canadian soil that demonstrates only a Canadian unit will do.  Until then, Canadians look at the CF as a "token force", something that is used in IR (international relations) and foreign policy more specifically to demonstrate multinationalism when really everything could have been accomplished by a world policeman.

Furthermore, most Canadians do not seem to either be aware or to subscribe to the belief that wars should be fought over there so that they dont have to be fought here.... Thus there is no need for a military, because the US can quite clearly assure the security of the continent (assuming their military leadership functions better than DHD did 3 weeks ago), and since there should be no need for us to go over there (humanitarian aid and more "canadian" "peace orientated" "soft" type functions such as mediation can do the job sufficiently on our behalf), why a military?

 

[Ubique RCA]

Hypothetical Rant:

If we were to  scrub the military today, and in 5 years time there is an attack on our soil. For lack of an enemy the granovian forces land on our soil and push to Ottawa and other major cities because they know we have no army.  There is a crucial time in the beginning of any battle, big or small where it will be won or lost. This is the time where forces are maneuvering to get the advantage. ok. now what happens....The US will take time to mobilize, we deffinitely won't have an army to put together. and if we did they wouldn't be as organized as the invading force and wouldn't have the fire power to stop on coming forces. The Americans come in and retake Canada. (which they wouldn't let down for eons to come) and the public would now say we want an army and we are back to square one.

Thanks for the rant

 

[GNR]

(sarcasm) Why don't we just give up our sovereignty now and join the United States? They have a BIG Army. (/end sarcasm)

 

[koss78a]

I agree it is very well needed that canada must maintain its military status. For one good reason it does provide jobs and quality employment to many of the serving members.
Why would someone want to leave a position as a Seragant to go and wash dishes at burger king???
It helps the canadian economy, since many people are employed and buy things in canada.
AS well, the military does help othe rparts of the world, such as search and rescue and helping in new orleans right now.

Secondly, the military is needed to protect our parts of the country, even though they are small, they are needed and perform an important duty.

If we were to get rid of our military and wait for the americans to help us, we might as well, say goodbye to canada.
If another country were to invade canada, and we called the americans to help. The president would say, ok we will help, only unless you the prime minister turn canada over to the united states, then we will help you.
That what would happen. Many people just dont see the whole picture of things. They are too absorbed drinking at the bars and playing playstation all the time.
my 2 cents!

 

[Meridian]

How many Sgts actually leave the forces and end up at BK?  I don't know, but I doubt the proportion is that high.

Anyway, my argument wasn't that I AGREE with many of the people who have given me those impressions, simply that thats how many canadians portray the issue. 
I guess I was looking more for a way to counteract this impression, or argue that hte impression isnt there at all and that Im grossly generalizing.... not to simply throw sarcasm to the wind...

 

[Zarathustra]

I'm not sure it's worth it to add yet another opinion to this thread but hey, can't hurt that much.

My opinion is the size of your military should fit the size of the threat your country is facing. The internal and external threat to Canada were very low until recently so the military was very small. Now the threat seems to be increasing a bit, and so is the size of our military. Makes sense to me.

Zero military on the other hand seems dangerous. Because you can go from a small military to a larger one fairly easily. I mean, the military knowledge is there, you just have many new guys to teach. Going from zero military to a larger one seems to be much harder. It's gonna be very amateurish until you get experience.

 

[GNR]

You know Zarathustra, that is a simple idea.......but it works.

Now the question is;
Will we be a nation that reacts to the increasing threat, changing only after we are threatened...potentially to late
OR one that is proactive and anticipates the upcoming threat and prepares for it now?

Failure to prepare IS preparing to fail.

 

[reccecrewman]

You kidding?  The only thing that might concievably stop them is the US navy.  China has a pretty decent fleet though, and using the element of surprise it's quite possible they could land enough troops to overwhelm our defenses before the US had a chance to position their own ships.  If it wasn't for the yanks being worried about their own soverignty, we'd be utterly defenceless.

What?  : Omigod!  It is absolutely ludicrous to think that some foreign power would EVER attempt to invade Canada.  Just think about the logistics involved in something like that.  First, you need enough transport ships to get the invasionary troops here, then you need supply ships for those invading troops, escort warships to protect the transport ships, aircraft carriers & refuelling ships & submarines.  Know of ANY Country out there that possesses enough of these to pull it off? I don't.  China's name has been thrown into the ring as a possible invader but they do not have adequete naval power to bring it to fruition.  Russia? No, they're not interested anymore & they're having enough issues of their own military shortcomings & the fact that they can't even properly handle the Chechens.

Next, should you have some other Country you believe actually HAS the naval requirements to invade us, now there's another problem.  Look at the sheer size of Canada.  Who could actually occupy us?  Do you have any idea of the number of troops that would be required to occupy Canada once they invaded & conquered?  ;D  If OP SEALION had actually happened and England fell to German invasion, history very well could be very different.  England was the jump off point for the liberation of Europe and had England fallen, that key staging area would not have been available to the allies, and Nazi Germany could bring her full weight down on the Soviets.  D-Day never would have happened because there's no way we could have mounted an invasion from the other side of the globe.  The same holds true today, no country could invade and hold Canada.

I still believe we need a standing Army to honour our NATO commitments and be able to defend our territory, but the liklihood of an invasion is next to nil. (Unless it was a land invasion from the South  )

 

[Kirkhill]

How about if they get invited in?

Consider Oka revisited.  As I recall a company strength group of Natives with small arms, some engineering skills and a bit of military training held the best part of a Brigade Group at bay for a summer.  And yes I know that was political not military but all conflicts are political.  If the politicians don't have the will nothing happens, except perhaps things go from bad to worse. 
\
Consider.  Perhaps on the West Coast at an oil terminus or gas field.  Perhaps on the East Coast at a Nickel mine.  In the North at a Diamond.  Land claimed by natives. Supported by the Toronto Chapter of Hell's Angels looking for a "free port" to smooth imports and exports.  Claim upheld by UN.  Disputed by Canada.  Natives and friends, along with money from Middle Eastern friends intend to develop resource themselves.  Appeal to other "foreign friends" to supply security, perhaps even technical advisers, guest workers.  Security systems shipped in by sea in standard containers as innocuous freight.

"The capitalist will pay you to buy the rope with which to hang him"  or words to that poorly remembered effect.

We may not need to repel a June 6th fleet or even an Inchon fleet.  However the cat can be skinned other ways and we may still end up needing a well equipped conventional force capable of operating at home.

 

[ArmyRick]

We need a military.

I once heard a WW2 vet say this line "Freedom has one price, blood"

If we give up our military, then we should also lay up the Candian Flag because that is what you are doing.

If that were to happen, I would move to the Republic of Alberta and join their army.

 

[reccecrewman]

LOL  ;D Well, you can safely assume it would be a well funded Army! 

 

[jmackenzie_15]

The notion that the US would someday "assimilate" Canada is entirely possible and quite frightening, and could easily happen alot sooner than most people think.

Its been said on these forums many times before, but in the event of another large scale terrorist attack on the US, that US intelligence discovered to have been staged from inside Canada, we would then be seen as a safe haven for terrorists, and we are obviously unable to keep them out of Canada.We are now a liability to the US. What do you think would happen then?

"Don't fret Canada, we're here patrolling your streets for your own protection" - George Bush, 2008

A nightmarish scenario if you ask me.

I find it disturbing and discomforting that our military is as meak as it is... I pray that it gets some kind of large scale resurgence very VERY quickly.

The odds of us staying a sovreign nation, with the most abundance of the worlds natural resources (oil, food, water) without an adequate military to defend ourselves, is 100-0. History does indeed go in circles, and the farther we drift into mediocrity, the more we are inviting our american "friends" to sleep over for the weekend.

 

[koss78a]

Totally agree on that last response, it is time that canada steps up the military power.
The general public needs to find out why its important to have a military.

too many canadians are too arrogant about the way it is right now and just go about their daily business.

 

[GNR]

It's best Canada figures out NOW why we NEED a military instead of them realising later why the SHOULD have had one.

 

[Wizard of OZ]

It doesn't even have to be a terrorist attack from or on Canadian soil.  What a bout at Cat 4-5 storm hitting the east or west coast.  The USA had over 70,000 troops deployed in the gulf area after the storm while still maintaining their commitments over seas.  This would be an impossibility in Canada.  We don't have the troops or equipment to re-act to an event of that size.  It is said that we can not even provide support to our own country man within our own borders.  That is reason one why Canada needs to beef up the Forces.

 

[JDFreeSoul]

I'm new to the Canadian Army, the Reserves infact, but I take great pride in my work.  It's enjoyable, fun, challenging, and quite rewarding.  

I've met some of the finest people I've met in my life from being in the army for just a few short months, and I feel quite content with the fact that while other people of my stature are working part time at McD's for $6 an hour doing, flipping burgers and asking "uh... you want fries with that?" I'm learning how to be a soldier.  A trade that I've dreamt about being since I was a little kid.  Furthermore, as an added bonus, I get paid more than buddy at McDonalds.  

It is quite a shame that few people actually are in the army, or even the military in general.  From my short time in the military, I've grown quite a loyalty and fondness towards it.  In fact, it just pisses me right off when people crap on it, and disrespect it.

The guy above (sorry to not recall your name) is right, though, about Canada's need for a strong military.  There may not be any immediate need for it now, but who knows what could lie ahead in the future?

Exactly... that's why we need Armed Forces like every nations, we never know what could happen tomorrow, who will defend the country if we're under attack in 20 years from now?

 

[Part-Timer]

If you look at the military history of Canada (and British North America before that) you will see a disturbing (to me) pattern emerge. Crisis emerges, people pay attention to the military. It takes a while to ramp up, and we lose too many people learning our lessons as a result. Crisis is resolved, people ignore the militray, budgets get cut, military shrinks...until the next crisis. The only thing that has saved us has been the fact that the fight's always been "over there" (except pre-confederation, and then the British and First Nations saved our bacon). But what will happen when the fight is over here? Will we finally wake up and smell the coffee? Or will it be too late?

 

[Meridian]

Just like the former CSIS director was saying in this week's edition of Time.... paraphrasing, "You can't just snap your figures and turn out intelligence officers".  Same thing goes for the military...

 

[zein]

Hi,

Somebody mentioned that the CF get an embarrassment in Somalia and that the CF is there for civilian rescues only... Well let us get back to the history of the CF and here I will remind everybody about the Vimy battle in World WarI   that changed things drastically. Let us get back to the storm that hit Quebec in the nineties and see how the forces managed to rescue our civilians.Without the army who was supposed to do the rescue if the local authorities were unable to handle the situation by themselves.Do we call for others to assist us? Or do we ask for an overseas rescuers to help us? The forces are there in peace and war times and as a result county without a national army will never gain a respect from its citizens. Why because the army is there to protect our citizens and sovereignty from any possible threats whether these are coming form aliens or nature..   Regardless of the resources available to our forces defending our nation and assisting our citizens are engraved in our hearts and that's the most important because we believe in our forces and our nation.