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Don't loot- Iraq Video

Three words - lack of leadership. You saw how confused the soldiers were, one of them telling the kid to be in school. So they dealt with the situation the best they could, I don‘t blame them for it, the CO is responsible for his men.
BTW I love the sexy sound the M1A1 Abrams gas turbine makes - whispering death is how US soldiers nicknamed the tank.
 
Anyone else notice that they crush the wood along with the car?
 
I can‘t believe that U.S. soldiers would do something like that. I really hope that the footage is taken out of context... as a matter of fact I thought it was some kind of spoof until I read comments on this board that seem to vouch for its authenticity.

How can some dumbass grunts have the authority or right to do something like that? The chunks of wood looked like they were picked out of rubble or bomb wreckage. They were small, and in a variety of shapes and sizes. It‘s not as if they were going to build a weapon out of that trash wood! They probably just wanted to rebuild a home or perhaps cook some food. If this footage is true, I am sadly dissapointed in the discipline and professionalism in the American Army. However my temper is stayed by the fact that their are always a ‘few bad apples‘ giving the rest a bad name (CAR anyone?). I guess you cannot generalize and entire force based on the actions of a handful of low-end soldiers. Still, it is pretty appalling....
 
Sort of like the pic that was circulating....A kid holding up a cardboard sign with "Lcpl. Beaudreaux killed my dad and knocked up my sister"
(two thumbs up--everyone smiling) (not sure of his name and rank)

Was it determined if that was real or P.S job?
Anyone know?
 
I think the sign was obviously a joke.

Firing off your service pistol into someones car in broad daylight or running it over with a tank isn‘t.

I think Napalm hit the nail on the head. Lack of leadership. The guys are standing around confused, they haden‘t a clue what to do. Someone probably made a joke and said crush the car then someone else thought it was a good idea. group mentality. Good thing our young american friend wasn‘t in the canadian army, each of those rounds would have been considered a negligent discharge at $1500 bucks a pop :)
 
Originally posted by absent_element:
[qb] Sort of like the pic that was circulating....A kid holding up a cardboard sign with "Lcpl. Beaudreaux killed my dad and knocked up my sister"
(two thumbs up--everyone smiling) (not sure of his name and rank)

Was it determined if that was real or P.S job?
Anyone know? [/qb]
off topic but i think the LCpl Boudreaux thing is fake because isn‘t Lance Corporal a Marine Corps rank? He wasnt in MARPAT...
 
Originally posted by Ghost778:
[qb]Good thing our young american friend wasn‘t in the canadian army,[/qb]
If he was in the Canadian army, he wouldn‘t have a tank to crush the car with! :D
 
I just watched the video... it was absolutely digusting, a complete lack of profesionalisim...

Admitedly, we only have what we see and what the voice over tells us. We don‘t have complete information... maybe there was a reason the car was crushed... maybe it was confiscated, and there was to way to remove to a rear area and they were ordered to crush it... maybe there are a good many factors involved... the media love to twist things...

That being said, if nothing else, the firing of rounds at the car was a display of un-professionalisim at it‘s finest. Somthing there was absolutely no need for. So it‘s clear that even if it‘s been twisted or spliced a tad, there‘s still somthing rotten at the core.
 
Does anyone know where this video originated? That would assign -some- credibility to it, one way or the other.

However, it is easy to see from the point of view of the locals/bleeding heart liberals/much if not all of the Middle East, that this kind of cowboy justice would be extremely damaging to the relationship between the forces there (including the Brits/Spanish/Japanese, etc). Most of those people are living in pretty desperate conditions right now, and between incidents like those and strengthing Iraqi dissatisfaction with the coalition forces just being there, there‘s little wonder that the hardliners and terrorists have no shortage of recruits.

It easy to understand how incidents like these can come about. I have read at least two articles that mention that the americans have to barricade themselves incide their camps due to the security situation, effectively cutting themselves off from the local population. That could easily result the troops being afraid of any and all Iraqis. When I was in Bosnia, the Americans where much the same way. They rarely left camp, and when they did, they drove fast, in large groups, and scared the **** out of the locals with their driving. My roomate there never left our camp as well, and he was terrified of the locals. Fortunately things were pretty calm when I was there. I can imagine things being a million times worse over in Iraq. Combine that stress with poor training (there‘s a lot of national guard troops over there now, and anyone on this board who has worked with them knows that they ain‘t exactly the Navy Seals) and if things don‘t improve you don‘t need a bag of chicken bones to predict that it‘s just gonna get worse.
 
I cant condone that. I guess if I was told by my superiors i would do it. But the small arms fire? Seems like someone wanted to "bust some caps"....thats sad......but I do love the tank sounds....
 
It comes from an episode of the PBS "Frontline"
I saw the program and I believe its the one below.
You can watch it.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/truth/view/
 
Originally posted by Arctic Acorn:
[qb] Thanks Sapper. [/qb]
No sweat,when I saw it for the first time I was shocked and thought that‘s no way to win hearts and minds.
 
I just found this and was rather surprised!! :eek:


US tactics condemned by British officers
By Sean Rayment, Defence Correspondent
(Filed: 11/04/2004)


Senior British commanders have condemned American military tactics in Iraq as heavy-handed and disproportionate.

One senior Army officer told The Telegraph that America‘s aggressive methods were causing friction among allied commanders and that there was a growing sense of "unease and frustration" among the British high command.

The officer, who agreed to the interview on the condition of anonymity, said that part of the problem was that American troops viewed Iraqis as untermenschen - the Nazi expression for "sub-humans".

Speaking from his base in southern Iraq, the officer said: "My view and the view of the British chain of command is that the Americans‘ use of violence is not proportionate and is over-responsive to the threat they are facing. They don‘t see the Iraqi people the way we see them. They view them as untermenschen. They are not concerned about the Iraqi loss of life in the way the British are. Their attitude towards the Iraqis is tragic, it‘s awful.

"The US troops view things in very simplistic terms. It seems hard for them to reconcile subtleties between who supports what and who doesn‘t in Iraq. It‘s easier for their soldiers to group all Iraqis as the bad guys. As far as they are concerned Iraq is bandit country and everybody is out to kill them."

The phrase untermenschen - literally "under-people" - was brought to prominence by Adolf Hitler in his book Mein Kampf, published in 1925. He used the term to describe those he regarded as racially inferior: Jews, Slaves and gipsies.

Although no formal complaints have as yet been made to their American counterparts, the officer said the British Government was aware of its commanders‘ "concerns and fears".

The officer explained that, under British military rules of war, British troops would never be given clearance to carry out attacks similar to those being conducted by the US military, in which helicopter gunships have been used to fire on targets in urban areas.

British rules of engagement only allow troops to open fire when attacked, using the minimum force necessary and only at identified targets.

The American approach was markedly different: "When US troops are attacked with mortars in Baghdad, they use mortar-locating radar to find the firing point and then attack the general area with artillery, even though the area they are attacking may be in the middle of a densely populated residential area.

"They may well kill the terrorists in the barrage but they will also kill and maim innocent civilians. That has been their response on a number of occasions. It is trite, but American troops do shoot first and ask questions later. They are very concerned about taking casualties and have even trained their guns on British troops, which has led to some confrontations between soldiers.

"The British response in Iraq has been much softer. During and after the war the British set about trying to win the confidence of the local population. There have been problems, it hasn‘t been easy but on the whole it was succeeding."

The officer believed that America had now lost the military initiative in Iraq, and it could only be regained with carefully planned, precision attacks against the "terrorists".

"The US will have to abandon the sledgehammer-to-crack-a-nut approach - it has failed," he said. "They need to stop viewing every Iraqi, every Arab as the enemy and attempt to win the hearts and minds of the people.

"Our objective is to create a stable, democratic and safe Iraq. That‘s achievable but not in the short term. It is going to take up to 10 years."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2004%2F04%2F11%2Fwtact11.xml&secureRefresh=true&_requestid=11014
 
I wonder what the cab driver will be doing now that he‘s unemployed and pissed off?
 
Originally posted by Nick:
[qb] I wonder what the cab driver will be doing now that he‘s unemployed and pissed off? [/qb]
Killing Americans?
 
I‘m still waiting to hear what Major Baker has to say.

Sir, this may be treading dangerous ground for you, but do you have any thoughts on this? Taking into consideration your trade and where you‘re posted, are you able to provide an American point of view on this? Not trying to pick a fight, sir, but honestly I‘d like to hear what you have to say...
 
Finally got the actual video to work. Hilarious.

Remember when this was filmed roughly a year ago, everyone was screaming bloody murder about the looting. It may not be the most effective way of dealing with it, but these soldiers were dealing with it. At that particular point in time, civil order in Baghdad was paramount. I stand by my original statement.

American armour - hooah.
 
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