Duties and Responsibilities of a junior Corporal

[Pikache]

This is a rather serious topic that some of my peers and I have been thinking about for some time as it is very unclear (at least to me) and never been quite explained to newly promoted corporals as to what the heck are they suppose to do in regards to dealing with privates and private recruits.

The new reserve thing is that a soldier can be promoted to corporal after 2 yrs since date of enlistment and I believe with CO's recommendation. I don't agree with it, in most parts as I believe in a lot of cases it puts inexperienced soldiers who cannot handle duties and responsibilities of a corporal.
I personally believe that with only 2 and half years of exp under my belt, I do not qualify to be a corporal.

Well, that depends on what is today's CF definition of what a corporal should be, at least in the reserve world.

My RSM tells me that I am a junior NCO and responsible partly guiding and teaching new privates to the best of my ability. As I may be slated as section 2i/c with up to 6 or so newly trained privates in section, I take this duty seriously. Traditionally the rank of corporal is the beginning of being an NCO and it still is in a lot of armies around the world.

Well, some soldiers including a lot of my fellow junior corporals think that a corporal is mere senior private and therefore keep his mouth shut, even if a private has glaring faults showing.
It seems to me that to most people, at least in reserves think that to qualify to 'teach' a troop, one must be PLQ/JLC qualified.

Considering how unimpressed with some of the soldiers being turned out to my experience and I do see a lot of soldiers as CQ staff, for example, failing to halt properly after 6 weeks of instruction, how can I not correct a troop telling him to do a halt properly?
Is it my responsibility to see that I should help a private be the best soldier he can be by showing him his faults or has "Never Pass a Fault" become irrelevant?

I don't consider myself a supersoldier (Marauder can attest to that ) and no one is more critical of my faults more than myself.

But considering how much flak I'm catching for showing a recruit his faults (or jacking up as some people seems to think) and think I'm powertripping, I'm beginning to wonder whether I'm a junior NCO with rank of Corporal or mere senior private who is called a corporal.

 

[Madevilz]

Does your unit have an insufficient number of MCpl? Because having a Cpl as a 2ic kinda shows it. As for your question, I see the rank as a mere senior private who is called a corporal as you say it. Years ago, to earn the rank of CPL you needed at least another qualification, and as stated above, nowadays, you dont need it anymore. Unless you are a CPL with many years of experience and a tour of duty, you're nothing more but a private with some experience in his pocket.

 

[Arctic Acorn]

Nowhere in the QR&O's does it say that a Corporal is "merely a senior private". A corporal outranks a private, end of story. I'm not suggesting that corporals should lord it over Private soldiers. Personally, I view it as a type of mentorship. If a corporal sees a Private doing something wrong/incorrect/illegal/whatever, it is their responsibility to sort it out as best they can. If a Corporal is with a group of private soldiers, then the corporal is expected to be responsible for that group as the senior person, and therefore in charge.

In my (admittedly limited) experience with the military, the authority of a Corporal is generally delegated by the higher chain of command to fill a position within a unit of accomplish a tasking, and a solid chain of command will support any honest corporal doing his job.

Anyone agree, disagree?

 

[clasper]

RoyalHighlandFusilier:

If you are section 2I/C, you are absolutely responsible for making sure your section mates are learning as much as possible and performing up to standard.  Discuss it with your section commander (because you don't want to step on his toes) but you need to mentor, teach, or jack up as required.  You should be mentoring most of the time, but the other two are tools you shouldn't ignore (or have unavailable to you by rule).

When dealing with newbies from other sections, it's a little fuzzier.  Yelling across the armouries at Bloggins to do up his pocket is definitely on the "power trip" end of the spectrum, but a little friendly professional advice to the guy next to you shouldn't be a problem (unless his section commander is on the other side of him, giving him advice also...)  Somewhere in the middle of those extremes, is a line you shouldn't cross, but most of us have at one time or another.  All part of the learning experience in determining what your leadership style is going to be.

And the assertion that you have to be JLC qualified to teach is absolute crap.  If you are a subject matter expert, you can teach.  JLC teaches you the basic format of a military lecture, but most people already know what these are since they've sat through hundreds of hours of them.  I was an instructor for a combat int course as a private.  I taught the PO on NATO map symbols (not exactly complex).  I was a better instructor after my JLC, but I don't think it should be an absolute prerequisite.

As a junior corporal in the infantry, you probably don't have the practice to give formal drill or weapons lectures (which are much more structured than general military knowledge classes), but most of the knowledge you pass on will be in an informal setting.  (Which is normally where the real learning takes place anyway.)

And finally, you will be much better prepared for your JLC (and you'll get more out of it) if you've already had some leadership experience.  If your job as a corporal was to always shut your mouth and do as you were told, JLC will not magically make you into a leader.  Everyone makes mistakes when they are first in a leadership position.  You may as well jump in with both feet and make them now.  They would be much more embarrassing as a newly minted MCpl.

 

[Jarnhamar]

From a reserve point of view I'd agree.

I've been told the rank of corporal is the first NCO technically as you can be put in charge of other soldiers where as supposedly a private you can't.  I'm not sure how accurate that is however. If a corporal see's  something wrong they should fix it. If a private see's something wrong they should fix it. As a corporal you have a little more authority over a private though. Guys don't seem to take the rank too seriously .

I also agree (as far as the reserves) the rank of corporal is *treated*as a glorified private. Theres corporals in the reserves who act and carry themselves like brand new privates.  I've heard quite a few privates go on and on about when they will be promoted to corporal, counting the months down. Once they get promoted nothing changes except their pay check. When you see a master corporal lacking basic soldier skills that privates should know i think it's safe to assume they didn't spend enough time as a corporal.

I think a corporal should be willing and actually able to act as a section commander if the need arises. A senior corporal should, with a little work, be able to act as a platoon warrant tempoairily in a pinch.

i think to be promoted to the rank of corporal a soldier should be qualified in a specific QL4 (drivers, machinegunners, comms etc..) as well as have some type of introduction to leadership course or set of classes.  It wouldn't have to be that in depth. Maybe a few training periods devoted to the theory of leadership, how to identify a problem and approach someone over it, the basics on running a section attack, how to do some admin work.

 

[Arctic Acorn]

Thats a great idea, Ghost.

As the PLQ is modularised now, they could run the leadership module (or portions thereof) to senior couporals before they get loaded on the PLQ. It would be good for professional development, it gets a PLQ module out of the way, and it lays a bit of groundwork for corporals (especially ones who are a little unsure of their level of authority).

 

[Infanteer]

The problem with the rank of Corporal is that it is a gimme; anyone can get it for just kicking around.   That is why units have to take a sort of "ad hoc" way of using their Corporals.   Good ones who've figured some of the game out with the time in and experience can be put in leadership positions.   Although they are not officially qualified to do things like lead a section attack, march troops, or do admin, they can usually figure it out with a little guidence from section commanders and Platoon Warrants.   This is what my old reserve unit did; every section 2ic was a Corporal and one or two of the section commanders was a Corporal as well.   This came about do to the fact that we had a shortage of MCpls and Sgts and that we had a good whack of Corporals returning from time on operations with the Reg Force.

Less then stellar Corporals are treated as senior rifleman, they got the promotion for time in but still lack a good grasp on basic soldiering skills.   They can be given the first whack at things such as course senior, but they must still be supervised.   Obviously, the hope is that they use the extra time as Corporal's to develop their soldiering skills.   We had a few of these in my unit as well; they were the senior riflemen.

Obviously, the system is very unofficial with no hard and fast rules.   I don't like how it works, but if the leadership is on the ball, it can usually get the most out of its Corporal's in a manpower deficent system.

Obviously, the Reg Force works differently, but I have seen the same situation there as well.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

A corporal is a private with a pay raise.  He does have powers of authority over privates, but would be wise not to let it go to his head. Generally this authority is exercised under the supervision of someone with leadership training (MCpl and up).

As someone with a year or so of experience (or 17 in some cases ;D ) he is expected to set a standard for the privates to follow in terms of his drill, deportment, job knowledge, etc., and yes, the privates should be able to come to him for advice.

 

[Scott]

I think that Corporal is the journeyman rank within the Military (Or it's equivalent) They say that Sergeants run the Army but I would risk saying that without the Corporals things would quickly grind to a halt. There was one such fellow in my unit who was happy as a lark being a corporal, didn't want to progress, he ran the QM and that suited him just fine. He was a great guy to talk to because he had been with the unit for a long time and knew just about everyone in it. I have alot of respect for the corporals spot.

Cheers

 

[Pikache]

Hmmm... Few posts with no definite answers... and two big branches of thought...

I like Ghost's idea about basic leadership course of some sort for newly promoted corporals. Actually I got something like that back at my unit and it helped me a lot in understanding leadership somewhat and puts me thinking in that direction. (Well, at least I can take comfort in thinking that my unit RSM thinks I'm some sort of leader)

But we still haven't answered first question yet... Is corporal mere senior private or a junior NCO?

PS: No, I'm not section 2i/c yet. But most units are always hurting for MCpls/Sgts it seems and I find it not uncommon for senior corporals (and failing that, junior corporals) in 2i/c role and sometimes section commander role.

 

[dutchie]

To add my 2 cents to your original question Fusilier:

I would say that by default a Cpl is not a JNCO, but that with experience, ability, maturity, etc., the Senior Corporal (or an exceptional Jr. Corporal) would be given enough responsibility and authority to be considered a Jr. NCO.

If you are looking for a 'hard and fast' rule, or straight answer, the only one that can be given is "No-Corporals are not JNCO's'......but they are much more than an experienced Private....I like the 'Apprentice/Journeyman' analogy of the Pte/Cpl relationship.

 

[Infanteer]

It is hard in the militia to judge ranks by the term "senior" and "junior" due to the short time spent in those ranks (2 years each).  Often, a reg force private will have more time in then a reserve Master Corporal.  However, the answer to your question lies in the fact that both, either, or none of the two can be incompetent shitpumps.

Technically, the Corporal is the first step as a Junior NCO; technically a Master Corporal is a Corporal, appointed to the position of Master Corporal.  This is all residue from the old (a more clear) system we had before Hellyer threw it all into a blender.

Realistically, a Corporal (especially a reserve one) is a glorified private.  They have no official abilities so to speak of, any positions they are appointed to is through merit alone.  That being said, if as a Corporal, you are appointed as a section 2ic, don't let the fact that you are a "well trained rifleman" stop you from perform your required duties (of which sorting out a green private may be one).  If you are appointed in this position then you represent the NCO in charge of the section and can perform your duties on his behalf; that is why he designated you 2ic.  We do this in the reserves because manpower constraints force us too, it may be a "toothless" rank, but the authority of the position of the C-of-C dictates that there are some leadership roles to be addressed.  The Germans had Lieutenants commanding rifle battalions in the Second World War, do you think they was taken less seriously because they were "glorified platoon commanders". 

Know and master the requirements of your rank (in the Corporal's case, that of a rifleman) and carry out your appointed duties in the best and most efficient way possible (In some Corporal's cases, a section 2ic).

 

[RCA]

In actual fact, a Cpl is a "qualified" Pte. In my unit at least, promotion to Cpl is two yrs in and (old) QL4 which ever comes last. Therefore seeing two hooks tells you he/she has trades trg other then basic ie driver, comms, tech etc. I would argue Cpls are JNCOs (unofficially anyway) in that they are given leadership responsibilities ie small party tasking. Their potentail is first perceived by higher ups and determination are made who is slated to move forward. Pte can't be given these tasks just because they are Pte. As to Cpl being automatic, this is strictly unit policy, but Ptes can not take any PLQ MODs.

 

[mclipper]

I know that in my unit, promotion to Cpl was automatic for a long time (2 years and 2 QL4s), and then they changed it due to crses becoming more difficult to get loaded onto.  It became 2 years and 1 QL4.  However, it appears (finally) they are changing it again, and it is no longer automatic.  In fact, we have one person who has been in for almost 5 years (fully qualified and even has a tour), but is a sh@$-pump, and he has not been promoted.  We have had a few people, who took quite a while to get their Cpls.  According the powers that be.....some people could take longer.  We have very few MCpls, and they are now using Cpls as section comds in some situations. 

 

[Brad Sallows]

Here are the magic words: "with CO's recommendation"

In the reserve, no promotion need be a "gimme" unless COs (collectively) permit it to be so.  You can sit around tables and argue about retention, training, authority, missing holes in the printed establishment, etc (and I've certainly done so), but at the end of the day the only gateway to promotion beyond competence that matters is the one in the CO's hand, occasionally with the RSM's hand reinforcing the CO's elbow.

PDR time is a good time to ask "Do you feel you are ready to assume the responsibilities of a <rank>?" or to state "I do not feel I have been adequately trained and prepared to be a <rank>".  If there is trust and frankness between superior and subordinate, deficiencies can be noted and plans made to overcome them.

An old acquaintance had what I believe to be the correct attitude (back when we were both corporals): while virtually everyone treated it as a "gimme, glorified private" rank for reservists, he made it his business to treat it as a leadership rank, to devote effort to acquiring the necessary skills and knowledge, and to conduct himself accordingly.  (Overcoming the perception of others toward the rank - particularly regulars, because there is a very real and broad capability, and hence credibility, gap - is the hardest part.)  You can wear the rank, or you can be it.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

It is hard in the militia to judge ranks by the term "senior" and "junior" due to the short time spent in those ranks (2 years each).  Often, a reg force private will have more time in then a reserve Master Corporal.  However, the answer to your question lies in the fact that both, either, or none of the two can be incompetent shitpumps.

Technically, the Corporal is the first step as a Junior NCO; technically a Master Corporal is a Corporal, appointed to the position of Master Corporal.  This is all residue from the old (a more clear) system we had before Hellyer threw it all into a blender.

Realistically, a Corporal (especially a reserve one) is a glorified private.  They have no official abilities so to speak of, any positions they are appointed to is through merit alone.  That being said, if as a Corporal, you are appointed as a section 2ic, don't let the fact that you are a "well trained rifleman" stop you from perform your required duties (of which sorting out a green private may be one).  If you are appointed in this position then you represent the NCO in charge of the section and can perform your duties on his behalf; that is why he designated you 2ic.  We do this in the reserves because manpower constraints force us too, it may be a "toothless" rank, but the authority of the position of the C-of-C dictates that there are some leadership roles to be addressed.  The Germans had Lieutenants commanding rifle battalions in the Second World War, do you think they was taken less seriously because they were "glorified platoon commanders". 

Know and master the requirements of your rank (in the Corporal's case, that of a rifleman) and carry out your appointed duties in the best and most efficient way possible (In some Corporal's cases, a section 2ic).

The Germans also had glorified privates - Gefreiter and Obergefreiter were pay raises, and did not include command responsiblities or NCO status.  Get this, however - a Corporal for Life in the Germany Army was called Stabsgefreiter and got to wear a special insignia.  This was a private who was in for at least 6 years but had no likelihood of being promoted to NCO rank.  He wore two chevrons and a rank pip - very much like our Master Corporal's insignia!  

It is useful to have a distinction between corporals and privates, at least in the reserves, but only marginally so.  In my case, I am one of those Stabsgefreiters (I was promoted to corporal in the 1980s!!) but in my role as company clerk rank is essentially meaningless.  I do the bidding of the CSM and Coy 2 i/c, I sometimes am required to "task" the platoon Warrants (ie getting strength returns or requesting info for nominal roles), but most importantly, my two stripes give me a flimsy veneer of authority over the newly joined privates whom I must help indoctrinate in the ways of administration.  Otherwise, I am a section of one - no one to command and that isn't such a bad thing.

Getting back to the Germans - they also had NCO platoon commanders, something unheard of in the Canadian Army - in fact, most of their platoon commanders - the vast majority - were NCOs by matter of design.  I guess having such low ranking junior commanders may have increased the need for different levels of private soldier?  It is an interesting question and a path of study rarely trodden.  I'd love to see someone write a book on ranks and responsibilities of the various armies, because we all do things slightly differently.

I agree that Canada's changes haven't been for the better since the 1950s, but arguably we are consistent with most NATO allies in that sergeants have the same responsibilities.

 

[Sledge Hammer]

Easy answer: Look up the "PDR" Template for Corporal, it will tell you all you need to know.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Easy answer: Look up the "PDR" Template for Corporal, it will tell you all you need to know.

Wow, into the league on your first post...

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

   Michael...make it stop!! ;D

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Easy answer: Look up the "PDR" Template for Corporal, it will tell you all you need to know.

Oh my they are breeding!!!!  :