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Election 2011 - The Aftermath for the Leaders

I have to say, I would agree (in part anyway) with one of the comments following that article in the National Post.

We should not act like hypocrites: If we take the view that we should not subsidize political parties from the public purse but leave it to the individuals to support the parties they will, then we should also dispose of the 75% tax credit that accompanies political donations. After all, that tax break a contributor gets is made up from the "extra" taxes I have to pay to cover my part of it regardless of whether I support that party or not.

I say end both (after all, with my "discretionary" funds, I can chose to buy a book - and get no tax break -or support a political party - in which case, why should I get a break?).
 
Oldgateboatdriver said:
I have to say, I would agree (in part anyway) with one of the comments following that article in the National Post.

We should not act like hypocrites: If we take the view that we should not subsidize political parties from the public purse but leave it to the individuals to support the parties they will, then we should also dispose of the 75% tax credit that accompanies political donations. After all, that tax break a contributor gets is made up from the "extra" taxes I have to pay to cover my part of it regardless of whether I support that party or not.

I say end both (after all, with my "discretionary" funds, I can chose to buy a book - and get no tax break -or support a political party - in which case, why should I get a break?).


I agree with you in principle, OGBD, but not in practice. In practice, unless we want to let corporate and union money back in, we need some forms of public subsidies, including:

1. Tax breaks - which reward the $100.00 donor proportionately more than the $1,000.00 donor - to encourage even greater public participation; and

2. Free advertising on TV and radio -

a. as a condition of a broadcast licence,

b. in reasonable, including peak, listening/viewing hours, and

c. in proportion to the voters earned in the last general election.
 
And now for a man who knows he has increasingly slim odds of becoming a leader:

Thursday, May 19, 2011 2:45 PM EDT

Peter MacKay gets a wingman on military procurement
JANE TABER

Peter MacKay has to share his Defence portfolio with Julian Fantino now, a move revealed in a cabinet reorganization that’s fuelled speculation about his relationship with Stephen Harper.

It’s no secret that Mr. MacKay, who once led the Progressive Conservative Party, is not exactly best friends with the Prime Minister. Indeed, he has been gradually losing his powers.

After the 2008 election, the regional development agency he headed, ACOA, was taken away. And then at Wednesday’s swearing-in, Mr. MacKay found himself still at the helm of the Department of National Defence but with a seemingly lesser role after Mr. Fantino was named Associate Minister of Defence.

Dimitri Soudas, the Prime Minister’s director of communications, explained that Mr. Fantino – the former top cop in Toronto and Ontario – will be responsible for defence procurement. It’s a huge responsibility given the National Defence budget is about $22-billion and between 14 and 16 per cent is for procurement.

Later, however, Mr. MacKay made it very clear he still remains the chief, telling reporters that Mr. Fantino reports to him.

“He’ll be reporting up through me on these procurement files and Julian has tremendous experience within a chain of command, as you know, having worked in law enforcement,” Mr. MacKay said.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/

 
1. Tax breaks - which reward the $100.00 donor proportionately more than the $1,000.00 donor - to encourage even greater public participation; and

The Tax discount is already 75%....and you want to go higher?
 
GAP said:
The Tax discount is already 75%....and you want to go higher?


Yes: let's give the smallest donor - party membership of $10.00 plus $10.00 per month = $130.00/year - an 85% tax concession. Let's make it really, really easy, even attractive for 'ordinary Canadians' without much spare money to get involved with the party of their choice. Let's give the people who donate up top $610.00/year (membership + $50 per month) a 70% discount on the next $480.00, and let's give the remainder, folks like me, who give $1,100.00/year a 60% tax break on the remaining $490.00. That way we encourage political participation by everyone and, while we reward all those who donate, we reward the 'little guy' most.
 
Baden  Guy said:
And now for a man who knows he has increasingly slim odds of becoming a leader:

Thursday, May 19, 2011 2:45 PM EDT

Peter MacKay gets a wingman on military procurement
JANE TABER

Peter MacKay has to share his Defence portfolio with Julian Fantino now, a move revealed in a cabinet reorganization that’s fuelled speculation about his relationship with Stephen Harper.

It’s no secret that Mr. MacKay, who once led the Progressive Conservative Party, is not exactly best friends with the Prime Minister. Indeed, he has been gradually losing his powers.

After the 2008 election, the regional development agency he headed, ACOA, was taken away. And then at Wednesday’s swearing-in, Mr. MacKay found himself still at the helm of the Department of National Defence but with a seemingly lesser role after Mr. Fantino was named Associate Minister of Defence.

Dimitri Soudas, the Prime Minister’s director of communications, explained that Mr. Fantino – the former top cop in Toronto and Ontario – will be responsible for defence procurement. It’s a huge responsibility given the National Defence budget is about $22-billion and between 14 and 16 per cent is for procurement.

Later, however, Mr. MacKay made it very clear he still remains the chief, telling reporters that Mr. Fantino reports to him.

“He’ll be reporting up through me on these procurement files and Julian has tremendous experience within a chain of command, as you know, having worked in law enforcement,” Mr. MacKay said.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/

Let's call this what it is, second guessing and hyperbole. Trying to create dissention where none really exists. Another case of the news media trying to create the news instead of reporting it.

Complete speculation. Fantino did a good job getting re-elected and is receiving his reward for doing so. Nothing more than that. This now positions him to take a more senior position, down the line, without being accused of inexperience.

If the press should have learned anything in the last 10 years, it's that the PM is normally about three steps ahead of anyone else that is watching him.
 
Laurie Hawn was A Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Defence.  There were 2 before, the title just sounds better.
 
I agree with Recceguy's view of the article.

It was always clear that Mr. Fantino was destined to enter the cabinet and to get a senior post, and that he would need some experience as a junior minister first.

I cant think of too many senior cabinet members that would be as good as Peter Mackay to train and develop a new junior minister. If I was the Minister of Defense, I would actually be pleased and think it an honour that the Prime Minister selected me to mentor and bring Mr. Fantino up to speed.
 
Not to mention the fact that having a single pair of eyes devoted to the procurement process solely can't be a bad thing.

Currently the MND has to oversee Operations, Policy and Procurement in a highly changeable environment.  Having a heavy-weight sidekick to ride shotgun on the relationships amongst DND, PWGSC, Industry, International Trade, Treasury Board, PC and the PMO doesn't seem to me to be a bad thing.
 
E.R. Campbell said:
Yes: let's give the smallest donor - party membership of $10.00 plus $10.00 per month = $130.00/year - an 85% tax concession. Let's make it really, really easy, even attractive for 'ordinary Canadians' without much spare money to get involved with the party of their choice. Let's give the people who donate up top $610.00/year (membership + $50 per month) a 70% discount on the next $480.00, and let's give the remainder, folks like me, who give $1,100.00/year a 60% tax break on the remaining $490.00. That way we encourage political participation by everyone and, while we reward all those who donate, we reward the 'little guy' most.

I am a small "c" conservative but I really don't buy this supply-side tax break stuff. Somebody in the lowest tax bracket isn't going to cough up $100 bucks just because it's going to save him ($100 x 85% tax break x 15% tax rate = $12.75 tax savings) at the end of the year. Net loss is still $87.25, or better yet he's paying $87.25 for $100. Not that huge of a discount.

Since it's already 75%, raising it 85% would make a difference of $1.50 annually to someone in the lowest tax bracket. I doubt many people in the lowest tax bracket make $100 decisions based on an extra $1.50 in savings.

I haven't made any political donations so all that above is said based on the assumptions that the tax breaks work the same way as any other tax break, but even if it is calculated slightly different, raising the credit 10% for the first $130 isn't going to help much. And going by this supply-side logi, by lowering it for the people that actually see benefits of tax credits you are discouraging those paying more than $130 a year from donating...
 
Tax breaks won't attract most "severely normal" people with no interest in politics, but might work to attract people at the margins who might not otherwise choose to be involved. If I am reading Edward's argument correctly (and let me know if this isn't the case) the real need is to attract a larger and more diverse portion of the population into politics to make it meor relevant to all voters and citizens and to provide a much larger talent pool of people. The secondary aim is to provide political parties with pools of funds and volunteers large enough to discourage them from becoming captive to special interest groups.

Changing marginal behaviour can also start a preference cascade which has compounding effects in the future.
 
As I understand it, and I contribute a fair amount to the CPC each year, the return is a tax credit. So if I decide to donate $100, and there is an 85% return, I have my federal tax payable reduced by 85 bucks. In other words, my $100 bucks becomes $15, but the party still receives $100.
 
Thucydides treads my intent correctly and Old Sweat is correct about the tax credits.

 
So political donations are not treated the same as other tax credits then? Which is what I assumed to come up with the above calculation. What you are describing to me is something I so far haven't heard of in my accounting/finance degree.

I receive an $800 per year tax credit for school. That is not $800 refunded to me. It is (800)(.15) refunded to me. If there were no tax credits and my income is 20,000, I pay 20,000(.15) = 3000 in taxes. The $800 tax credit is not subtracted from the $3000. It is subrated from the 20,000. So with the credit, I pay (20,000 - 800)(.15) = 2880. The difference between 3000 and 2880 is equal to (800)(.15).

I highly doubt the government is simply refunding you $85 on a $100 donation, that essentially means "if you pay $15, we will match that with a 587% donation," so if they are, then we need to get rid of that system altogether as it's a complete waste. What an 85% tax credit on the first $X is saying is "if you donate $100, we will make an extra $85 of your income exempt from being taxed."

Now I did notice donations to political parties was seperate on the tax forms, but it is not after the tax rate is applied, so because I don't have any tax forms with me in NB I am going to assume I'm right until someone offers me a better explanation.

As for your intent E.R., I guess I missed that and it is certainly a good intent, makes perfect sense and a good aim I think. I just don't believe the supply-side method of it would actually achieve that aim.
 
I just went over the Schedule 1 and Federal Political Tax Credit worksheet online and whatnot, because I had noticed it was seperated before but since I haven't donated anything never looked too closely.

It appears you are right. If you donate $400 you are really paying $100 out of your own pocket. This is a ridiculous waste of money IMO. :facepalm:
 
Why the Liberals will continue to have problems in the future. The internal structure seems frightenly similar to the maze of headquarters and staffs we encounter on our day to day work:

http://www.kathrynmarshall.ca/federal-politics/liberal-party-structure-holding-them-back/

LIBERAL PARTY STRUCTURE HOLDING THEM BACK
May 22, 2011Leave a comment

Before the Liberals paint the walls, they need to lay a new foundation. One of the biggest things holding the Liberal Party back from real change and renewal is their own internal party structure hampered by layers of bureaucracy and title holders. The way a party is structured affects its success as an organization and election fighting machine. It’s no wonder that the Conservatives and Liberals have exact opposite party structures.

Unlike the Liberals, the Tories have a very flat party structure. There’s a national council consisting of elected representatives from each province and territory who sit on council with the leader and they meet a few times a year to discuss party business. There’s no wings, no commissions, no special interest groups. There are no intermediate groups between the constituency associations and the national council. Every party member has an equal voice, regardless of their gender, age or ethnicity.  This is a structure that empowers the grassroots base of party activists, volunteers and members, not title holders and party bureaucrats.

The Liberal Party structure is in stark contrast to the simple, flat organization of the Conservatives. They’re bursting at the seams with commissions, special interest groups and regional organizations. It seems like they have a title for everything, and everyone.

In addition to their national executive, the Liberals have multiple commissions and groups like the National Women’s Liberal Commission, Young Liberals of Canada, Aboriginal People’s Commission and Senior Liberals Commission. Each of these commissions has their own mandate, policy, budgets, events, meetings and executive.  Combine their respective executives and staff and this adds a cast of 75 title holders.

The Liberal Party has affiliate organizations in each region of the country, each with their own board of directors, annual conventions, budgets, etc. The Liberal Party in Manitoba alone has 35 people on their board. Add together all the regional organizations this adds hundreds more title holders.

The Liberal Party also has a National Elections Readiness Committee with an astounding 37 people on the executive. With an executive that big, you’d think they would have actually been, well, ready for the election.

In 2006 the Liberals put together a “Renewal Commission”, which clearly failed to result in much renewal. What they need to do is cut commissions, not create more.

The layers of internal Liberal bureaucracy put barriers between the grassroots of the party and the executive. This top down approach puts the Liberals out of touch with their own base—which results in bad policy, bad decisions and kills on-the-ground organization.  The Liberals current structure is also inefficient, expensive and impossible to manage. Nothing gets done.

In the private sector, when a company is looking to change for better, they trim the fat. The Liberals need to do the same. If they want real renewal and change, they should start with a simpler party structure that empowers party members, not title holders.  And please, don’t create a commission to cut commissions.
 
If this is more than just a glitch then it spell real trouble for the LPC, since it means the partisan bloggers who advocate for their position in cyberspace and make up a "virtual" organization parallel to the Party have abandoned them:

http://thetrustytory2.wordpress.com/2011/05/25/it-sucks-to-be-a-liberal-when/

 
1) 
recceguy said:
Let's call this what it is, second guessing and hyperbole. Trying to create dissention where none really exists. Another case of the news media trying to create the news instead of reporting it ..... If the press should have learned anything in the last 10 years, it's that the PM is normally about three steps ahead of anyone else that is watching him.
More of crystal-balling from a QMI/Sun Media columnist:
.... One military expert told me with the Afghanistan mission winding down, the real power and most important action in the years to come with the defence department is in the re-booting of it and that responsibility has been handed to Fantino.

“How Canada moves ahead with the purchase new (F-35) fighter jets and frigates is the number one defence priority going forward and the prime minister has selected his man to do that job,” he said.

That person does not seem to be MacKay or, at least, not all by himself.

The good news is for the taxpayers because of Fantino’s by-the-book, no nonsense reputation. The bad news is for those out there hungering for off-shore bank account deposits thanks to spending that could be in excess of $100-billion.

“Harper is sending the message there will be no Airbus envelopes this time,” said a source.

In other words Fantino is the enforcer that lover boy MacKay has not yet shown to be ....

2)  So, is Bob Rae going into the interim leader's race as a bit of a pre-measurement of his chances?  ("If they want me as leader, they'll pick Garneau as interim")?
Liberal MPs are expected to emerge from a caucus meeting Wednesday with their pick for interim leader.

Bob Rae and Marc Garneau are the only two MPs who have announced publicly they want the job, which opened up when Michael Ignatieff resigned as Liberal leader on May 3. The Liberals were reduced to third-party status in the House of Commons in the election a day earlier, and Ignatieff lost his own seat.

Rae, a Toronto MP, is considered the frontrunner with wide support among the 34 remaining MPs and 45 Liberal senators, but Garneau has kept his name in the hat.

Liberal MPs are expected to vote on their pick for the temporary leader, and the party's national executive board has the final say. The executive could take the caucus's recommendation into consideration and name Ignatieff's successor as early as today ....
 
Decision Day
Liberals name Bob Rae interim chief
JANE TABER
OTTAWA— Globe and Mail Update
Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2011 11:18AM EDT

Bob Rae says the Liberal Party should look to a new “generation of leadership” – but in the interim, he is happy to serve as leader.

The 62-year-old Toronto Centre MP and former NDP premier of Ontario was named interim leader by the Liberal caucus on Wednesday morning.

“The people of Canada gave the Liberal Party a very clear and tough message in the last election,” Mr. Rae said at a lunchtime news conference. “It's a message that we have received and understood.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/liberals-name-bob-rae-interim-chief/article2034214/
 
Baden  Guy said:
Decision Day
Liberals name Bob Rae interim chief
JANE TABER
OTTAWA— Globe and Mail Update
Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2011 11:18AM EDT

Bob Rae says the Liberal Party should look to a new “generation of leadership” – but in the interim, he is happy to serve as leader.

The 62-year-old Toronto Centre MP and former NDP premier of Ontario was named interim leader by the Liberal caucus on Wednesday morning.

“The people of Canada gave the Liberal Party a very clear and tough message in the last election,” Mr. Rae said at a lunchtime news conference. “It's a message that we have received and understood.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/liberals-name-bob-rae-interim-chief/article2034214/
They have received and understood many, many tough messages from the Canadian people in the past. They then decided, against all common decency, to tell the plebes they were wrong and the Natural Governing Nanny State knew what was best, and implemented measures, for them.

Nothing will change except the face of the party, which will spend it's time berating the CPC and continue to make promises they know they won't have to keep, a la the NDP before the election.

If there is one saving grace, their talk time in the Commons will now be severely curtailed compared to what they are used to. Although that won't stop the MSM from falling all over themselves to anoint Rae the new messiah.

Bet the party poobahs end up changing the rules to let him run in the leadership convention also, if he does well as Interm leader. ;)
 
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