Election time? - Go now or wait for Gomery?

[Reccesoldier]

I don't know much about the Bloc Quebecois really, except that at one point they were basically trying to tear Canada apart. (Not sure if thier still doing that...)

Okay, I switched off right here. If you do not know enough to know that the Bloc are a separatist party then perhaps you should remain silent lest you as the man said "open it and remove all doubt"

 

[Thirstyson]

Am I the only one that wants to see this budget passed, THEN see the liberal lose a confidence vote.

This is a pretty good budget for all Canadians, CF included.

 

[RCA]

Whether we go now or go later all depends what side of the line you fall on. The conservatives can smell blood, and going sooner rather them later is better for them electoral-wise then waiting for the Gomery commission. Therefore, I would conclude, from them, that the commission no longer matters, and can be wrapped up now. What would be the harm from waiting? If the election is called, the Commission dies, and we, the people we never get the full accounting of the scandal. As well Martin would be a suicidal fool to go back on his very public promise. What is more important, finding out what happen, or Harper's quest for the Prime Ministership? Will a few more months really make a difference to the Liberal party fortunes. Probably not, if the commission keeps getting the information it is getting. And we, the public, would have more information, never a bad thing.

 The money the Liberals are throwing around is not committed funds, but promises of spending (and over a couple of years I would suspect) so the treasury is not running dry.  If people fail to elect the Conservatives, it is not Liberal fear mongering, but failure of the party to clearly articulate their position on how they are better able to run this county then the Liberals, or just  the country may not ready for their brand of politics.
There is a lot of talk about electoral reform, but nothing will be solved, because the problem is the nature of politics today. We see it in the States, and we see it here, where everything is partisan, and a take no prisoners approach is more valued then compromise (which was the art of politics before). The VE Day debacle is a prime example. What Martin should have done is gone any way, and if Harper had played politics and brought the gov't down, then he would have paid the price. Minorities use to work, now will not. Guaranteed, if we get either a Conservative or Liberal minority, nothing will get done due to constant political maneuvering to bring it down.  

As I said before, all is viewed through whatever prism you have. If you fall on the right of centre line, The NDP has high jacked the government, whereas cozying up to the Bloc is just business (quote from Inky Mark). However if you fall on the left, the NDP took advantages of an opportunity (their platform isn't secret) and the Liberals could have said no. And the last time the Conservatives got tight with separatist was Mulroney and does anyone remember how that went. And if the Conservatives get a minority, what compromises will they make?

This will be one of the dirtiest campaigns coming up whenever it is, and that is because of the winner take all, stomp the opponent into the ground mentality. A lot less issues, and a lot more bashing. No one will gain and all will come out smelling a lot less sweet. Is this the chicken or the egg. Did we as the public come to expect this, or is what politicians perceive we want. What the election will be about is a tired worn out government against a party that wants to win at all costs. Not going to be a pretty sight. (You can already see by the some of the partisan comments made here and elsewhere)

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Quote,
Am I the only one that wants to see this budget passed, THEN see the liberal lose a confidence vote.
This is a pretty good budget for all Canadians, CF included.

Very good point, for me anyways, as I really haven't checked out the meat of the budget yet. Its sad when the side shows trump the "big top",...oh well such is the life of the circus politition.

 

[Prariedawg]

I do not want to wait a week,a day or another ten minutes to see this "goverment"act like it has some responsibility towards this country and call an election.I want no more of my tax dollars that I thought were going into shoddy social programs going into fat-cat liberal pockets,I want to see a leader with some morals and conscience in the drivers seat,not some mindless goon bought and paid for by MINORITY special intrest groups,the tail has wagged the dog for too f******g long in this country and it is my fervent hope we will have the leader we need in control when all this has died down.As for some comments being made about this budget being good for Canadians all I have to say is that do you really think that if re-elected this provenly corrupt goverment will honor any of those promises?They made a deal with the NDP and promised to break it before the ink was dry,are you so morally jaded as to think being bought with your own taxes which should have been used for the programs the libs are now promising years ago becouse it was thier DUTY as the elected goverment to do so is a good idea?The only reason they are promising to spend OUR money correctly now is becouse they got busted,how can you not see that?If you know anything about budgets all these fairy-tale handouts the libs are promising are slated for 4-5 years from now,if re-elected you wont see a thin dime and yes im willing to bet on that.

 

[I_am_John_Galt]

Now that the Martin government has fallen but pretends otherwise (aka ignoring the vote of non confidence in the house), who would like to compare Mr Martin to? Fransisco Franco?

This just in:  GENERALISSIMO PAUL MARTIN STILL DOES NOT HAVE THE CONFIDENCE OF THE HOUSE ... further updates as necessary.

(Sorry, old SNL joke - couldn't resist)  ;D

 

[I_am_John_Galt]

I never said anyone should tell the churches what to do.

Um, then you support the Conservative (rather than the Liberal/NDP) position.  Seems kind of shame that you would vote against something you believe in.

 

[old medic]

http://www.caglecartoons.com/preview.asp?previewType=download&imageID={89B03B65-DD89-4AC8-B54F-4A2956D86908}

 

[Brad Sallows]

>They do not reflect my morals or my values.

So, what are your morals and values?  I am particularly interested in whether you believe individuals have any rights that should be completely or nearly beyond the power of the state to infringe.

 

[Brad Sallows]

I continue to come across opinions that the CPC has failed to make its position and policies well-known.  The first step in an election campaign is to have the election called.

 

[mover1]

I wish there was a vote coming on soon. I don't believe that the liberals can effectively govern now. The quicker it comes, the quicker we can get on with our lives.

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

Just for those who are interested, as you may or may not know this vote will come down to the 3 independent MP's because the Liberals and NDP have 150 MP's, the Bloc and Conservatives have 153 MP's however in the case of a draw the Speaker of the House (a Liberal) breaks the deadlock.

In short, unless one of the independents leans towards the CPC/Bloc then the Liberals could hang on....

The three independents are:
Carolyn Parrish - former Liberal who leans left and will support the Liberal/NDP block
Chuck Cadman - don't really know his history
David Kilgour - former Liberal who although originally backing the non-confidence motion now appears to have been bought by Paul Martin's promise to deploy troops to Darfur.

Bottom Line:  I'm don't consider myself a political activist but I'm so pissed right now I'm willing to do things I otherwise wouldn't.  I've already emailed Mr Kilgour and will be emailing Mr Cadman as well.  (Carolyn Parrish is waste of time).  The interesting part is it appears as though I'm not alone.  I was just over on Tanknet and members there posted two letters they had emailed to Mr Kilgour and Mr Cadman.  I suggest anyone who really cares and wants their voice heard to step up now, because if this does go the other way and Martin hangs on, things are going to go from bad to worse....

For reference purposes here are the two letters with Mr Kilgour and Mr Cadman's email addresses for those who wish to try to make a difference (I will post my letters later tonight).



Matthew. 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

letter to Chuck Cadman '[email protected]'

Dear Mr. Cadman

I am a XXXXXXXx resident â “ not in your riding. I have read that you are concerned that having an election now will help the Bloc and hurt Canada. I must say that, having lived in Quebec for four years, I have a strong sense that their anger is not toward Canada - it is toward the Liberals. Not having an election will see this anger fester and harden into long term, residual, resentment. Yes, an election now will result in more BLOC MP's, but not having one means that the next provincial election will result in more PQ getting elected . . and that is the problem. Anger can be dealt with. Resentment leads to catastrophe.

I have no faith in Paul Martin's promise to call an election 30 days after Gomery's report is tabled.

Gomery will be like the Krever Blood Scandal report â “ held up in legal wrangling for years â “ and Paul Martin knows it. We may never see the report.

Please vote against the confidence motion and give us an election where the voters can decide. The damage being done to this great nation now is too great to wait for months, let alone years before we can vote.

For the good of the country.



Wishing you the best in your treatment & recovery

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[email protected]


Dear Mr. Kilgour,


Thank you for standing up for the innocents victims of genocide in Darfur. It is too bad that you have to deal with Liberals who for years have deprived the Canadian Armed Forces of tools equipment and resources needed to do a real job. We need to send and support at least battle group of 1500 troops â “ which we don't have, medium lift helicopters â “ which we don't have, via aircraft â “ which we don't have and using sealift capabilities â “ which (surprise !) we don't have. I could go on. I served in the CAF â “ both the Reserves and the Regular Forces and I am appalled at what the Liberals have done to the Forces.
If Paul Martin was serious about the Darfur situation, he would have been making a huge stink at the UN, at NATO and other international forums for the last year +. He has not done so. Darfur was of no consequence to him until your vote became critical to his political future, but I am sure you know this. It will be of no consequence to him should you vote for him and leave him to govern.
I am sure that you are also concerned that an election now will help the Bloc and hurt Canada. I must say that, having lived in Quebec for four years, I have a strong sense that their anger is not toward Canada - it is toward the Liberals. Not having an election will see this anger fester and harden into long term, residual, resentment. Yes, an election now will result in more BLOC MP's, but not having one means that the next provincial election will result in more PQ getting elected . . and that is the problem. Anger can be dealt with. Resentment leads to catastrophe.
I have no faith in Paul Martin's promise to call an election 30 days after Gomery's report is tabled.
Gomery will be like the Krever Blood Scandal report â “ held up in legal wrangling for years â “ and Paul Martin knows it. We may never see the report.

Please vote against the confidence motion and give us an election where the voters can decide. The damage being done to this great nation now is too great to wait for months, let alone years before we can vote.

For the good of the country.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Andyboy]

He should realize that he has a better chance of getting what he wants if he backs Harper.

 

[civvy3840]

http://www.caglecartoons.com/preview.asp?previewType=download&imageID={89B03B65-DD89-4AC8-B54F-4A2956D86908}

lol that's pretty good


In my opinnion they should have had a confidence vote a couple weeks ago... If the Liberals don't get booted out completely (which I hope they do!) then at least get rid of Martin.

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

lol that's pretty good


In my opinnion they should have had a confidence vote a couple weeks ago... If the Liberals don't get booted out completely (which I hope they do!) then at least get rid of Martin.

Just to streamline things because this cartoon is classic, here's where the link was going....


Matthew.   

 

[civvy3840]

Just to streamline things because this cartoon is classic, here's where the link was going....


Matthew.    

That is a classic.... I didn't know the significance of the steam boat until someone told me that Martin used to own a line of steam boats or something and now his son does. Makes it even better.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Politics/2005/05/12/1036740-cp.html
Parliament shut down again

By ALEXANDER PANETTA
   
OTTAWA (CP) - Gov. Gen. Adrienne Clarkson has spoken with Prime Minister Paul Martin and consulted constitutional experts this week as Parliament descends into chaos.
"The Governor General is monitoring the situation very closely," said an official. Martin's office would not confirm the conversation but pointed out that they speak often about her schedule. Clarkson has been thrust into the midst of a political storm with the opposition calling on her to take control of what they call an unworkable Parliament.

The opposition grabbed control of the House of Commons on Thursday, shut it down, and asked for Clarkson to help trigger an election.
The one-day walkout was the boldest move yet by the Bloc Quebecois and the Tories to demonstrate that the minority Liberals no longer hold power.
"We've now demonstrated three days in a row (that) the government does not have the confidence of the House," Harper said.

"It could go on until the government or the Governor General is forced to admit that the government has lost its mandate to govern the country."
The Governor General has the authority to dissolve Parliament and order an election - or consider whether the Oppostion is capable of forming a government - if she deems the House has lost confidence in the ruling government. She can also advise the prime minister.
But democractic convention stipulates that the government should first test the confidence of the House, which Martin has said he will do next Thursday.

A federal official said the prime minister called Clarkson this week but he wasn't aware of what they discussed.
He also said she has consulted "well known and reputable" constitutional experts.
The prime minister has promised two confidence votes on the federal budget next Thursday but the opposition wants a vote immediately. They're worried that a Tory MP with cancer - Darrel Stinson - won't make it to a late-week vote because he needs surgery.

A senior government official said the prime minister won't be taking any direction from Clarkson.
"The Governor General receives advice from her first minister. She doesn't tender it," the official said.
The opposition's appealed for Clarkson's intervention after they shut down most of the workings of Parliament on Thursday.
First they boycotted some parliamentary committees, then they powered through a motion to close the House of Commons just before noon.

Martin had to suspended a cabinet meeting and his ministers scurried down the Centre Block staircase to vote on the motion.
The government lost 152-144.
Within minutes, tour guides were escorting camera-toting visitors across a barren lower chamber as the daily theatre of question period was scrubbed.
Martin responded to the opposition with a new $170-million aid package for Sudan and cited it as proof his government is still functioning.
"Canadians get up in the morning and they go to work," he said. "I think parliamentarians should do the same."

The Conservatives and Bloc say the Liberals can't govern until they allow an immediate vote of confidence.
The Conservatives will fight the Liberal plan to delay the votes until Thursday. They want them by Monday at the latest and say they will vote against any motion to schedule a confidence showdown for Thursday.
Stinson's vote could be critical in a deadlocked Commons. The vote will be so tight that the result depends on how three Independent MPs vote.

But the prime minister said he will not change the date of the confidence motion and a possible election call.
"There is an election in British Columbia (on Tuesday)," Martin said.
"The Queen is arriving on Tuesday and Wednesday (for a visit to Saskatchewan and Alberta) and I think it's very important that we respect that."

Liberal whip Karen Redman says her party and the NDP are still showing up for work.
"There is work being done," she said.
"We're reporting into work - we're punching the clock. We're here doing what Canadians sent us less than a year ago to do, and that's to do the business of government."

A defeat of the budget next Thursday would pave the way for a June 27 election.
The Bloc and Tories say they're not willing to wait.
They say the Liberals lost the confidence of the House in a vote earlier this week and they're determined to prove it by shutting down Parliament.

The Liberals' frailty was underscored when Independent MP David Kilgour demanded 500 Canadian soldiers be sent to Sudan.
He warned that the Liberals might not get his key vote on the budget unless he sees enough Canadian boots on the ground in Darfur.
He said he was unimpressed with Martin's promise to deploy up to 100 Canadian Forces personnel and hinted he might vote to defeat the government.

 

[Infanteer]

The Liberals' frailty was underscored when Independent MP David Kilgour demanded 500 Canadian soldiers be sent to Sudan.
He warned that the Liberals might not get his key vote on the budget unless he sees enough Canadian boots on the ground in Darfur.

This is what really bothers me - all issues of Darfur aside, the deployment of soliders should be based on geneuine concerns of National Security; I'm not really interested in going over there so that Paul Martin can get David Kilgours vote.... :rage:

 

[I_am_John_Galt]

A senior government official said the prime minister won't be taking any direction from Clarkson.
"The Governor General receives advice from her first minister. She doesn't tender it," the official said.

The mask slips ...

This is what really bothers me - all issues of Darfur aside, the deployment of soliders should be based on geneuine concerns of National Security; I'm not really interested in going over there so that Paul Martin can get David Kilgours vote.... :rage:

Kilgour was on Canada AM this morning and said that "the government" hasn't done enough to secure his vote ... this whole thing is scary in so many ways (kind of a "Perfect Storm" of everything that is wrong with the Canadian poliitcal system).

 

[PuckChaser]

I don't think troops should be used as a bargaining chip.