F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF)

[McG]

The aircraft we choose will serve us for at least 30 years.  If there is no doubt in your mind that the F35 will have progressed to be the superior option within 5 years of now, then why contemplate other lesser but equally expensive options?

 

[Altair]

To be fair, that's already true of the aircraft we currently fly when compared with some of its contemporaries.

For the likely threats that Canada will face, any of the aircraft choices available would serve us well.  The F-35 would simply do it a little better.  If this was 5 years from now, I doubt there'd be any question about that.

You should honestly leave this topic alone.

Everyone here is really set in their ways and all other choices other than the f35 will be attacked for one reason or another.

I'm simply awaiting the day that Canada officially doesn't buy the f2t and will feast on the tears shed here.

Then I will shed tears myself when the government makes the requirement of Canada's next fighter something like has to be American built for Norad and has to have two engines for the vast expanses of northern canada.

Which leaves just one plane.

 

[Loachman]

I would not be surprised at all should that happen, given my observations of Liberal governments over more than four decades.

It would still be wrong, stupid, and short-sighted.

 

[PuckChaser]

Altair, you used to actually have sound arguments, but are now just resorting to poor attempts at trolling. If you're just here to spin people up by deliberately picking positions opposite anyone else, maybe you need to take a break.

A lot of people here want the best aircraft available as long as the cost is relatively on par with other in production planes. Those "tears" are from people with a vested interest in coming home alive. You may be perfectly OK with political interference, pork barreling, and defining requirements without any data to back them up, but by doing that, it's status quo for the procurement system that was promised to be fixed by this government.

 

[Kirkhill]

I try not to "pile on" and I will apologize to both JMT and Altair in advance if it seems so:

But

The problem that I have with this whole project is the manner in which it has been played for political advantage.  In particular I become incensed by the manner in which "costs" were manipulated in order to create headlines.

Numbers were created until a suitable level of public reaction was achieved.  It is hard for me to see the piling on of costs and the constantly increasing predicted life in any other way.  Especially seeing as how the new government is in place and the numbers have disappeared from the headlines and the discussion is solely about the need and the capital cost of replacement.

I regret it but there are times when I seriously feel the need for my tinfoil cap.

 

[MarkOttawa]

More on USAF IOC:

USAF Set To Declare F-35 Combat Ready; Hill Notifications Begin

The U.S. Air Force plans to begin notifying Congress on Aug. 1 of the impending decision to declare the F-35 combat ready, sources said, a move that will likely be followed shortly by Air Combat Command’s (ACC) final seal of approval.

The Air Force has a five-month window between August and December to green light the first fighter squadron destined to fly the F-35, the “Rude Rams” based out of Hill Air Force Base, Utah. But the man in charge of the decision, ACC chief Gen. Herbert Carlisle, will likely make the decision to declare initial operational capability (IOC) in early August, following the congressional notifications. Inside Defense reported that Carlisle will declare the jet combat ready on Aug. 2...
http://aviationweek.com/defense/usaf-set-declare-f-35-combat-ready-hill-notifications-begin

Mark
Ottawa
 

 

[Altair]

Altair, you used to actually have sound arguments, but are now just resorting to poor attempts at trolling. If you're just here to spin people up by deliberately picking positions opposite anyone else, maybe you need to take a break.

A lot of people here want the best aircraft available as long as the cost is relatively on par with other in production planes. Those "tears" are from people with a vested interest in coming home alive. You may be perfectly OK with political interference, pork barreling, and defining requirements without any data to back them up, but by doing that, it's status quo for the procurement system that was promised to be fixed by this government.

Hush you, I don't want the SH any more than you do.

I've made it clear which fighter I like best but everyone here has made it clear that any fighter but the f35 is a death trap ( a surprise to the french, swedes, Germans,  Brazilians,  Italians, Spanish,  south Africans, Thai, Egyptians I'm sure)

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

Hush you, I don't want the SH any more than you do.

I've made it clear which fighter I like best but everyone here has made it clear that any fighter but the f35 is a death trap ( a surprise to the french, swedes, Germans,  Brazilians,  Italians, Spanish,  south Africans, Thai, Egyptians I'm sure)

Two signallers arguing over fighter aircraft.....  op:

 

[Journeyman]

Two signallers arguing over fighter aircraft.....  op:

Shame there are no pilots, people with procurement experience, or knowledge of security and defence policy, etc, to weigh in on these treads.....

 

[Altair]

Shame there are no pilots, people with procurement experience, or knowledge of security and defence policy, etc, to weigh in on these treads.....

like I said, I mostly stay out of this now.

Just advising JMT to do likewise.

 

[jmt18325]

like I said, I mostly stay out of this now.

Just advising JMT to do likewise.

I find echo chambers to be a pretty dangerous place.  This website has that problem on a few fronts if people like you stay quiet.

 

[Altair]

I find echo chambers to be a pretty dangerous place.  This website has that problem on a few fronts if people like you stay quiet.

Most like the echo chamber here and all have the opinion that the F35 is the only plan worth anything and every other plane is a death trap and if you state anything contrary to that they point out our lack of knowledge or practical experience. Doesn't make for much of a discussion.

Your time and energy is probably better spent elsewhere.

 

[PuckChaser]

if you state anything contrary to that they point out our lack of knowledge or practical experience. Doesn't make for much of a discussion.

Damn this place requiring evidence or experience. Its almost as if you're the one searching for an echo chamber to that provides the confirmation bias you desperately seek.

 

[Altair]

Damn this place requiring evidence or experience. Its almost as if you're the one searching for an echo chamber to that provides the confirmation bias you desperately seek.

Event if I do provide evidence it's immediately discounted. After that experience I have decided my energy is better spent elsewhere.

You will notice I don't talk about what fighter canada should get anymore. Don't know how that equates to me searching for a echo chamber.

I don't even know why you're on my case, I'm trying to get JMT to disengage so you guys can have your F35 vigil to yourself without us pesky other people with different viewpoints.

 

[PuckChaser]

I don't even know why you're on my case, I'm trying to get JMT to disengage so you guys can have your F35 vigil to yourself without us pesky other people with different viewpoints.

Because while you do so, you're trying to throw thinly veiled trolling comments at people who have disagreed with you in the past.

If you want an anti-F35 echo chamber, go to the Avro Arrow page here: https://www.facebook.com/Avro-Arrow-Bourdeau-Industries-Official-402158416505160/?fref=nf For the low low cost of $93M CAD an aircraft, you can have a hypersonic Avro Arrow, AESA radar, and 6 (wtf?) engines. That way, we can lose 4 engines (because the Iroquois 3 engine will be 30% more reliable than an engine that never entered service in the 1950s) and still have the 2 engines you cling to as a hard requirement. They'll be 33% completed in under 36 months, and they'll throw in a 3D thrust vectoring exhaust and cool rearview mirror dice.

 

[Altair]

Because while you do so, you're trying to throw thinly veiled trolling comments at people who have disagreed with you in the past.

If you want an anti-F35 echo chamber, go to the Avro Arrow page here: https://www.facebook.com/Avro-Arrow-Bourdeau-Industries-Official-402158416505160/?fref=nf For the low low cost of $93M CAD an aircraft, you can have a hypersonic Avro Arrow, AESA radar, and 6 (wtf?) engines. That way, we can lose 4 engines (because the Iroquois 3 engine will be 30% more reliable than an engine that never entered service in the 1950s) and still have the 2 engines you cling to as a hard requirement. They'll be 33% completed in under 36 months, and they'll throw in a 3D thrust vectoring exhaust and cool rearview mirror dice.

Anti F35=Pro avro arrow?

You're better than that.

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

Perhaps it's time for a "Signallers arguing about next generation fighter aircraft" thread?

edited for content

 

[Altair]

Perhaps it's time for a "Signallers arguing about next generation fighter aircraft" thread?

edited for content

No need. Puckchaser is reminding me why I stopped posting here in the first place.

Just awaiting the day that the government squashes the F35 completely. Then I will return and  [Xp

 

[Jarnhamar]

Just awaiting the day that the government squashes the F35 completely.  [Xp

The Liberals already promised that and look at what happened. As much as I can think of 1000 other things we could spend our money on in the CF we're going to end up buying the F35s.

Mean while you'll be deploying in this war wagon.

 

[PuckChaser]

Look at that suspension sag under the armour weight. What a beast.