Fasting in the CF

[R.O.S]

I have tried to search fasting topics on this forum with no results.

I am curious to know if there are any regulations to religious members in the CF on fasting. Muslims have a month of fasting, and so do Jews and certain Christians on some occasions. Fasting, as I have witnessed, creates lack of nutrition and an inability or at least diminishes effort in doing certain tasks. Things like exercising and learning are compromised. Many of my friends are Muslims and many of them do not fast as they fear it will impede on their ability to study, as they become tired and concentration levels fall.

Now the question I have is whether fasting is discouraged or should be within the CF when on duty. It is not only a concern of personal safety, but the safety of fellow members. A unit needs to be effective, and even one day of fasting can compromise this. I do know there might be instances, whether it be training or on the field, where members will not be provided food at times, but there is a difference between not being able to eat and choosing not to eat. 

Also remember, even hydration (drinking water) is forbidden under certain guidelines within certain religions. I also want to point out that I understand that monotheistic religions are not the only ones out there, however I will admit to my ignorance and admit I do not know if fasting it practiced within them. If you know more please add.

* Keep this topic clean please, no religious bashing, just respectful discussion. 

 

[Remius]

I'm curious to know which religion forbids hydration?

I'm no expert, but don't muslims who fast during Ramadan refrain from eating between sun up and sun down?

I suppose it becomes a matter of how strict the religion is and what exceptions are made.  I believe in the case of muslims, pregnant women and infants are exempt etc.

 

[Armymedic]

To answer Cantor question,
Sects of Islam prohibits eating, drinking, smoking, sex, etc from sunrise to sunset during Ramadan.

As per any other personal decision or sacrifice you make while in employment of the CF, you must inform/attain permission of your CoC before beginning. As there are certain physical and mental attributes that decrease with a dramatic increase of caloric or fluid intake, they must/should know and account for your decreased performance. Doing a BFT on the 5th day of Ramadan may not be the best thing for you to do.

That being said, people have been fasting for several millennia, be it by personal choice or not, and we still have survived.

And given the obesity rates of our North American society, perhaps a little more fasting and a little less feasting may be in order.

 

[GAP]

It does not matter what the religion, an armed force requires its' active duty members to maintain themselves in such a state that they are not incapacitated by their religious duties.

Depending on the environment and situation, the observance will probably be sometimes more spiritual than actual.

 

[R.O.S]

I'm curious to know which religion forbids hydration?

Islam forbids any form of drink or food during the holy month. Of course there are exceptions (pregnant, on medicine, sick, the young and old)

And given the obesity rates of our North American society, perhaps a little more fasting and a little less feasting may be in order.

Fasting is not a way to loose wieght. The one interesting fact is that many Muslims gain wieght during the holy month. Why is this? It is because at sunset there is very often a very large dinner that is served. I have seen this first hand with my friends who after ramadan is over they go to the gym.

That being said, people have been fasting for several millennia, be it by personal choice or not, and we still have survived.

It is a little be more difficult then that. What if a field doctor is not 100% because of fasting and needs to perform a life saving procedure? What if a soldier is firing a sniper rifle and his eye focus is not on target or hazy?

We have all once or twice been in situtations, whether religious or not, were we haven't eaten enough and found it difficult to perform needed tasks. There is a difference between not being able to eat and deciding not to eat. The CF does not sell flowers, they operate heavy machinery, and perform tasks that need each member to be as best prepared a possible.

 

[Remius]

I just read that if the fasting poses a threat to their health, a muslim can take it up at another time other than Ramadan.

http://islam.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=islam&cdn=religion&tm=16&gps=89_437_1024_596&f=00&tt=12&bt=1&bts=0&zu=http%3A//www.islamfortoday.com/ramadan01.htm

 

[R.O.S]

As per any other personal decision or sacrifice you make while in employment of the CF, you must inform/attain permission of your CoC before beginning. As there are certain physical and mental attributes that decrease with a dramatic increase of caloric or fluid intake, they must/should know and account for your decreased performance.

Is this an actual guidline within the CF? or is this just one of those 'you should' things? If it is a guidline that answers most of my concerns/questions.

 

[Armymedic]

Fasting is not a way to loose wieght.

to "lose", actually it is...if done properly. Fasting is what we more commonly call dieting.

By defintion, from Dictionary.com:

American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source fast 2       (fāst)  Pronunciation Key  
intr.v.   fast·ed, fast·ing, fasts

To abstain from food.
To eat very little or abstain from certain foods, especially as a religious discipline.

n.  
The act or practice of abstaining from or eating very little food.
A period of such abstention or self-denial.


[Middle English fasten, from Old English fæstan; see past- in Indo-European roots.]

 

[Armymedic]

R.O.S.

I forgot the CF does not issue common sense...

Currently it is a "should" falling under COC/CO's discretion, I don't know of any printed regs.

 

[Munxcub]

to "lose", actually it is...if done properly. Fasting is what we more commonly call dieting.

and since when is "dieting" a healthy and correct way to lose weight? Is it not usually associated with a yo-yo?

 

[medaid]

I remember that there is a CF Guide to Religions or title to that effect available. Inside it outlines each religion and what type of things the COC should be aware of.

 

[Remius]

Yep. And it's as thick as the CF phonebook.  Scientology isn't included either.

 

[Fusaki]

Is this an actual guidline within the CF? or is this just one of those 'you should' things? If it is a guidline that answers most of my concerns/questions.

http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/qr_o/vol2/ch103_e.asp

103.31 – MALINGERING OR MAIMING

(1) Section 98 of the National Defence Act provides:

"98. Every person who
     
(a) malingers or feigns or produces disease or infirmity,

(b) aggravates, or delays the cure of, disease or infirmity by misconduct or wilful disobedience of orders, or

(c) wilfully mains or injures himself or any other person who is a member of any of Her Majesty’s Forces or of any forces cooperating therewith, whether at the instance of that person or not, with intent thereby to render himself or that other person unfit for service, or causes himself to be maimed or injured by any person with intent thereby to render himself unfit for service,

is guilty of an offence and on conviction, if he commits the offence on active service or when under orders for active service or in respect of a person on active service or under orders for active service, is liable to imprisonment for life or to less punishment and, in any other case, is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years or to less punishment."

I'll admit I'm not very savvy with the QR&Os, but this seems to be legal definition of malingering.

If the purpose of fasting is to intentionally weaken your body in accordance with your religion, then in my mind that constitutes intent to render yourself unfit for service. Not too big a leap of logic, is it?

 

[Remius]

No, your logic is flawed.  The intent of fasting is for religious purposes not to render themselves unfit for service.  It might make them unfit, but the intent wasn't there.

 

[HItorMiss]

http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/qr_o/vol2/ch103_e.asp
If the purpose of fasting is to intentionally weaken your body in accordance with your religion, then in my mind that constitutes intent to render yourself unfit for service. Not too big a leap of logic, is it?

You missed the biggest par of your own statement which I highlighted. It's a religious choice and/or doctrinal necessity and as such falls into the Religious freedom clause of the QR&O's meaning that so long as it is covered in your  then it's not a crime (Within reason of course I can't go scalping just because I'm native).

 

[Greymatters]

I dont understand people with that kind of mindset. It has always been an implied understanding that if you join up, you willingly reduce your level of religious observance because ther isnt room for it regardless of religion.  As an example, we cant adapt to Quakers who wont ride in vehicles.  You can argue that its your right of religious observance to fast, but people with such strict observances, regardless of religion should think twice before joining.  If they are going to fast, then they will also want to not work on Fridays, the same way others do not want to work on Saturdays and Sundays, which can cause conflict and confrontations for the rest who arent as observant.  They may need kosher or (I forget the term for Muslims, 'falil'?) or otherwise approved foods which will not be available to them all the time.  They are pretty much making themselves into an administrative burden, for inexplicable reasons. 

 

[Remius]

Greymatter, the CF has decided to try and accomodate religious observances as long as it doesn't affect operational requirements.  If a muslim wants to fast he can be accomodated.  If someone of the jewish faith doesn't want to eat pork that can be accomodated.  etc etc.  Whatever "administrative burden" they create, is outweighed by the cultural value they bring to the CF.  Over its history the CF has accomodated various "groups" and individuals to improve its effectiveness.

 

[mudrecceman]

cultural value?

why not just...value?

 

[Remius]

cultural value?

why not just...value?

Well, cultural value can better aid the CF in its operations abroad.

But sure, the admin. burden of accomodating is outweighed by the value they bring to the CF.

 

[razorguns]

in the us : the military will do what it can to accomodate someone.  Usually it's not that difficult.  

Ideally, the onus should be on the person to 'accomodate' the military to his religion - not the other way around.  if they don't - one must question why they even joined in the first place (voluntary remember) and if they're even passionate about the military.  I know of many Sikhs who join the CF and work with the CF on accomodating because they're passionate about their duty. Works out for both sides.

btw: if it's a warzone and this person starts causing 'probles' cuz of his demand - he could simply be kicked out.

99.9% of the time - it isn't an 'issue'.  but makes for great debate threads.  lol.

r