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Federal Carbon Tax

Jonezy76

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Carbon tax will be to the environment what the gas tax was to our roads.....

I tend to agree. The revenue generated isn't (as it should be) used for green technology. If it did, the tax would be easier for me to swallow. It's supposed to be "revenue neutral". Why bother?

It also fails to shift behaviour in rural Canada. We don't have a choice on whether we drive or take public transit because we don't have cabs or busses. We are 150km to a major center, 100km to the closes hospital and many in our town work 20-100km away. We heat with gas, oil or propane, which are all taxed. Some use wood, but no-one is home 24/7 to tend the fire. Electric vehicles aren't ideal out here either.

I have an energy efficient home and we have a fuel efficient car, but have had them well before any carbon tax. It's called saving money.

This year is also very hard for grain farmers out here. Most have to dry every bushel of grain that came off the field, if any came off at all..... Let's tax that gas and propane too! How would you like to spend another 24% to dry grain?
https://www.producer.com/2019/11/carbon-tax-a-grain-drying-mystery/

Then there's the GST on the carbon tax.... really?

The point that I'm trying to make is that the tax won't shift behaviour (out here anyway) because our choices are limited. The Gov't sees this, calls it ineffective and raises the tax. It's a brilliant revenue stream.
 

OldSolduer

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Brihard said:
In what way do you mean that?

The original intent of the fuel tax was that every cent of tax collected was to be invested in new/improved roads etc.



 

Humphrey Bogart

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Jarnhamar said:
What's the justification for taxing a tax?
Jarnhamar said:
What's the justification for taxing a tax?

The purpose of any tax is either to raise revenue to fund the Government or .... to alter prices to effect demand.

The LPC and Government want this tax for a bit of both.  I think it's more about the former than the latter though.

I won't support a Carbon Tax because it negatively impacts my family who live in Rural Canada.  My parents heat their home with Oil and Wood (there is no other choice) and the temperatures, road conditions, etc where I grew up make electric vehicles impractical. 

There is no choice of an alternative, it's oil, wood or freeze.  You've also go other players also trying to gouge you.  My parents house is over 100 years old and recently they had to pay to modify the hot water tank setup because NB Power ruled that their system was "illegal".  The water was being heated by the furnace in addition to the hot water tank which meant a larger supply of hot water and less electrical usage.

Now they are on separate loops entirely and have to spend additional money on electricity even though the furnace is circulating continuous hot water throughout the house.  All so NB Power could pocket a few extra bucks. 
 

Jarnhamar

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Forcing a tax then taxing that tax. What an excellent business plan.

I hope rual Canada finds a way to pay back the big cities in kind.
 

OldSolduer

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Jarnhamar said:
Forcing a tax then taxing that tax. What an excellent business plan.

I hope rual Canada finds a way to pay back the big cities in kind.

In the Socialist Republic of Manitoba we've been paying PST and GST on top of retail for spirits at the MLCC forever. Never mind that 80% of the retail cost of a bottle is all tax.

But its all about saving just one life.
 

mariomike

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Jarnhamar said:
I hope rual Canada finds a way to pay back the big cities in kind.

Our urban-rural divide is a perennial favorite.

In reference to that, this came out before Canada's last election,
29 Sept., 2019

The urban-rural divide, right along party lines
https://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/338canada-the-urban-rural-divide-right-along-party-lines/
In the least populated ridings, Conservatives dominate voting intentions by 16 points. In the most populated, Liberals are up by 26 points.

"...the gap between urban and rural Canadians appears to be growing."


 

Jarnhamar

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"In the least populated ridings, Conservatives dominate voting intentions by 16 points. In the most populated, Liberals are up by 26 points."

And the Conservatives still got more votes winning the "popular vote". Interesting.
 

mariomike

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Jarnhamar said:
And the Conservatives still got more votes winning the "popular vote".

By a margin of 1%. Congratulations.

OK, Jarnhamar, I'll take your bait.

If you think 1% is a big deal, last year the Republicans lost by a margin of 8.6%.



 

Jarnhamar

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mariomike said:
By a margin of 1%. Congratulations.

OK, Jarnhamar, I'll take your bait.

If you think 1% is a big deal, last year the Republicans lost by a margin of 8.6%.


Do you think the Carbon Tax will impact big city dwellers the same way it will impact rural Canadians?
 

mariomike

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Jarnhamar said:
Do you think the Carbon Tax will impact big city dwellers the same way it will impact rural Canadians?

I'm not an expert. I'll leave that question to those who are.

Other than that, I just know what I read in the papers, and on here,

Rural Canadians get bigger rebate under federal carbon plan
https://ipolitics.ca/2018/10/23/rural-canadians-get-bigger-rebate-under-federal-carbon-plan/


 

Jarnhamar

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mariomike said:
I'm not an expert. I'll leave that question to those who are.

Other than that, I just know what I read in the papers, and on here,

The government is instituting a tax that effects rural Canadians more than Canadians that live in big cities. The government is taxing that tax and making even more money off the rural Canadians who are being impacted more than other Canadians.
Liberals are making money off Canadians that by and large didn't vote for them.

Tell me again why western Canada doesn't like the Liberals?
 

Brad Sallows

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Rural Canada does not exist for itself.  Rural Canada provides everything urban Canada needs to prevent the latter from deteriorating into mobs of howling cannibal savages fighting over the scraps from community gardens and barrels of burning furniture.
 

QV

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Jarnhamar said:
The government is instituting a tax that effects rural Canadians more than Canadians that live in big cities. The government is taxing that tax and making even more money off the rural Canadians who are being impacted more than other Canadians.
Liberals are making money off Canadians that by and large didn't vote for them.

Tell me again why western Canada doesn't like the Liberals?

That, and when you consider how equalization payments are flowing (https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/how-alberta-pays-quebecs-bills-four-charts-that-show-alberta-picks-up-the-tab) it is not hard to see why the chasm widens. 
 

mariomike

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Jarnhamar said:
Tell me again why western Canada doesn't like the Liberals?

This will better explain the answer(s) to your question better than I ever can,

Western Alienation - Split from General Election 2019
https://army.ca/forums/threads/131365.0.html
7 pages.
 

Jarnhamar

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alberta-quebec-4.png




Jesus. Quebec seems like quite the money pit.
 
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