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Federal Carbon Tax

Remius

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Jarnhamar said:
alberta-quebec-4.png




Jesus. Quebec seems like quite the money pit.

Sure.  Until you look at it on a per capita basis, then they don’t seem so bad.  In fact they likely get less per person than most provinces on that list.

Also for a bit of a counter point: 

https://business.financialpost.com/news/economy/getting-the-facts-straight-when-it-comes-to-provincial-equalization-payments
 

Jarnhamar

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Remius said:
Sure.  Until you look at it on a per capita basis, then they don’t seem so bad.  In fact they likely get less per person than most provinces on that list.

Also for a bit of a counter point: 

https://business.financialpost.com/news/economy/getting-the-facts-straight-when-it-comes-to-provincial-equalization-payments

You may have to dumb that down for me my friend.

All the provinces appear to have got below 20 billion between 2007-2018 (Manitoba got slightly over).
Quebec has got 105? 110 billion? dollars between the same years.

But they get less per person...

Where is the +80 billion dollars more than everyone else going? They look like they're getting more than all other provinces combined.
 

brihard

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Jarnhamar said:
alberta-quebec-4.png




Jesus. Quebec seems like quite the money pit.

Bear in mind that’s total, and the totals don’t take population into account. Per capita, several provinces receive more equalization than Quebec- but of course you multiply by population, and the gross amount ends up - well, gross.
 

Kat Stevens

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mariomike said:
By a margin of 1%. Congratulations.

OK, Jarnhamar, I'll take your bait.

If you think 1% is a big deal, last year the Republicans lost by a margin of 8.6%.

Yes, and apparently you're still not over it.
 

QV

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Remius said:
Sure.  Until you look at it on a per capita basis, then they don’t seem so bad.  In fact they likely get less per person than most provinces on that list.

Also for a bit of a counter point: 

https://business.financialpost.com/news/economy/getting-the-facts-straight-when-it-comes-to-provincial-equalization-payments

In your counter point the author writes:  "So Manitoba currently has the right to one revenue stream — Canadian generosity —  and Newfoundland and Labrador has the exclusive right to monetize a resource that Manitoba lacks, offshore oil."

It's not the equalization that the West is bothered about, it's when those regions who receive the equalization attack and hinder the very means to which a large part of those equalization funds are generated.  So when Alberta can't monetize it's resources to the extent it determines (pipelines etc) then why should there be any right to equalization payments? 

   
 

Jarnhamar

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According to Wikipedia Hillary Clinton won the popular vote in the US by 2.1% (if I'm reading it correctly) so not exactly a huge margin over our popular vote difference. But I wasn't talking about the US.

I brought it up because it's been pointed out the big cities have larger populations than some entire provinces, or multiple provinces combined.

With that in mind the Liberals STILL lost the popular vote and only won by a very narrow margin. My conjecture is the people who kept the Liberals in power (looking at GTA core here) are the least impacted by this new taxed tax.

Quebec? No idea whats going on there but it sure seems like they're benefiting pretty big from the rest of Canada, specifically the west. Same west that will be most impacted by the carbon tax. Or really the rest of Canada outside mega cities.
 

mariomike

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Jarnhamar said:
With that in mind the Liberals STILL lost the popular vote and only won by a very narrow margin.

The Conservatives won the popular vote in four provinces / territories. They lost it in nine.

If you wish to continue discussing the election, we have a 37-page thread devoted to it.


 

Jarnhamar

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mariomike said:
The Conservatives won the popular vote in four provinces / territories. They lost it in nine.

If you wish to continue discussing the election, we have a 37-page thread devoted to it.

Right. Thanks.
 

Humphrey Bogart

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mariomike said:
The Conservatives won the popular vote in four provinces / territories. They lost it in nine.

If you wish to continue discussing the election, we have a 37-page thread devoted to it.

But they still won the popular vote, which is the metric election reformists always throw about when they want to amend Canada's electoral system  ;)

It's only become convenient to not talk about it now because the "Right" Party is in power  ;D

Regardless, what does this have to do with the Federal Carbon Tax?

 

mariomike

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Humphrey Bogart said:
Regardless, what does this have to do with the Federal Carbon Tax?

Didn't say it did.

I was replying to this,

Jarnhamar said:
With that in mind the Liberals STILL lost the popular vote and only won by a very narrow margin.

And added this,

mariomike said:
If you wish to continue discussing the election, we have a 37-page thread devoted to it.
 

Jarnhamar

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[quote author=Humphrey Bogart]

Regardless, what does this have to do with the Federal Carbon Tax?
[/quote]

Liberals are in power because of the electoral system and not because the majority of Canadians voted for them.

My conjecture is the majority of Canadians don't want this new taxed tax and those that don't care are probably the same ones responsible for the Liberals getting voted in like the GTA and other big city types.

Open to being wrong of course.
 

QV

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Jarnhamar said:
Liberals are in power because of the electoral system and not because the majority of Canadians voted for them.

My conjecture is the majority of Canadians don't want this new taxed tax and those that don't care are probably the same ones responsible for the Liberals getting voted in like the GTA and other big city types.

And since one vote in Quebec is worth two votes in AB/BC elections and policies like this happen.  Thinking of how narrow this last election was, I wonder what the political landscape would be like if the seats were fair.  Would we still have a carbon tax?  Doubtful. 
 

mariomike

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QV said:
And since one vote in Quebec is worth two votes in AB/BC elections and policies like this happen. 

I learn something new every day on here.

One person, one vote? In Canada, it’s not even close
https://www.thestar.com/politics/2019/10/13/one-person-one-vote-in-canada-its-not-even-close.html
Some votes are going to be substantially more powerful than others, especially those cast in the most remote rural ridings. And if you live in a city — especially one growing as rapidly as Greater Toronto — your vote is more likely to register as less than equal.

If you guys wish, perhaps "General Election: Oct 21, 2019" would be a more appropriate venue to continue the discourse.  :) 


 

Oldgateboatdriver

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Jarnhamar said:
How is one vote in Quebec worth two else where?

It's not - and it's the usual "Quebec-bashing" crowd that thinks Quebec is somehow screwing every other province - or that Quebec decides everything and gets everything while they are deprived of it all. Boo! Hoo!

Let's face the facts (I know they are irrelevant to people whose view is "I am right and you are wrong, Nya! Nya! Nya!):

Quebec population: 8.1 millions - number of Parliament seats: 78;
BC/AB population: 8.6 millions - number of Parliament seats: 76.

WOW!!! What an indescribably unfair situation - obviously Qc votes are worth TWICE those of BC/AB !!!
 

mariomike

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Oldgateboatdriver said:
It's not - and it's the usual "Quebec-bashing" crowd that thinks Quebec is somehow screwing every other province - or that Quebec decides everything and gets everything while they are deprived of it all. Boo! Hoo!

I believe that dubious distinction is shared with the GTA.  :)
 

QV

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Oldgateboatdriver said:
It's not - and it's the usual "Quebec-bashing" crowd that thinks Quebec is somehow screwing every other province - or that Quebec decides everything and gets everything while they are deprived of it all. Boo! Hoo!

Let's face the facts (I know they are irrelevant to people whose view is "I am right and you are wrong, Nya! Nya! Nya!):

Quebec population: 8.1 millions - number of Parliament seats: 78;
BC/AB population: 8.6 millions - number of Parliament seats: 76.

WOW!!! What an indescribably unfair situation - obviously Qc votes are worth TWICE those of BC/AB !!!

Looks like I’m mistaken, and I don’t even know where I got that figure from.  Glad to have your mature and measured response to set me straight. 
 

Halifax Tar

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Oldgateboatdriver said:
It's not - and it's the usual "Quebec-bashing" crowd that thinks Quebec is somehow screwing every other province - or that Quebec decides everything and gets everything while they are deprived of it all. Boo! Hoo!

Let's face the facts (I know they are irrelevant to people whose view is "I am right and you are wrong, Nya! Nya! Nya!):

Quebec population: 8.1 millions - number of Parliament seats: 78;
BC/AB population: 8.6 millions - number of Parliament seats: 76.

WOW!!! What an indescribably unfair situation - obviously Qc votes are worth TWICE those of BC/AB !!!

Thats not the problem.  The problem is that 7.7% of the population voted for a purely regional party and that translated into 32 seats, vice the NDP getting 15.9% of the vote while only translating into 24 seats.  At the same time the country pours billions into the province of 8.1 million people.  The greens got 1 percentage point less than the Bloc and got 3 seats. 

*FYI I am card carrying conservative, but if I was the NDP or Greens I would be screaming bloody murder!

Quebec holds way to much sway in our political system and I think that could be solved or equaled out with a redistribution of seats; and a blocking parties from being able to run unless they can field candidates all over the country.

My numbers taken from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Canadian_federal_election#Results

I have to ask why the second largest province in Canada needs those less populated to support it financially ?
 
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