Field Stoves
- Thread starter McG
- Start date
- Reaction score
- 3
- Points
- 430
They tend to be a bit more finnicky to start than white-gas/naptha, but you can use Coghlan's fire paste on the genarator (Primus) or the wick (MSR/Optimus/Brunton) to pre-heat so that the diesel/JP-8 atomizes properly, or the beauty of a "multi-fuel" stove is that you can run it on naptha when you've got it.
I own an Optimus Nova and it worked beautifully for me for 7 months in Iraq running on JP-8.
I own an Optimus Nova and it worked beautifully for me for 7 months in Iraq running on JP-8.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 160
To answer your question, better than anything I have ever seen issued by the CF.
I have both an MSR XG and a Whisperlite Internationale and they both run on darn near any fuel. I have had no problems with either of them and the XG was made in 1978. The big difference between most liquid fuel stoves is the type of burner, plate or port. Plate burners work better with dirty fuels and at altitude but are far louder than port burner stoves like the Whisperlites (and Coleman's). If you are looking for a stove to climb Denali with go with a plate burner. If you want a stove that will work in the field on fuel scavenged from the ML that forgot your companies naphtha and not attract the enemy or your RSM go with a Whisperlite Internationale.
If you pre heat your liquid fuel stoves with alcohol you can avoid that big god damn flare that will attract the enemy and set your tent on fire.
Just my opinion on stoves.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
Gunnerlove,
That was a bang-on post. I've had the MSR Whisperlite Internationale multi-fuel stove for 5 years now, and it has never let me down. The JP-8 burns dirty (sooty), but it works just fine - as does gasoline and (of course) naptha. Just make sure you buy the little spare parts kit that MEC sells with the wrench, extra jets, etc. It is definitely worth having for a stove that is not supported by the CQ's parts bin.
The beauty of the Whisperlite, Dragonfly, and most of the other compact external-tank stoves is that the burner unit packs up small enough to fit inside a canteen cup, producing a very compact, lightweight and reasonably damage-resistant package that can be carried in the accessible outside pouch of your ruck.
As an aside, it has been my experience that you signficantly increase the performance of such stoves by employing the lightweight aluminum reflector and wind-screen. These items are durable and can be folded up into a compact bundle for storage in the same canteen cup as the stove. I find that I get approximately 1/3 shorter boil-times when I take the extra few minutes to set up the base-reflector and wind-screen.
Any of the high-quality compact multi-fuel stoves is a very wise investment. Nothing beats a hot coffee/tea/mocha after a frosty night on a mountain-top....or in the bottom of a muddy fire trench....
That was a bang-on post. I've had the MSR Whisperlite Internationale multi-fuel stove for 5 years now, and it has never let me down. The JP-8 burns dirty (sooty), but it works just fine - as does gasoline and (of course) naptha. Just make sure you buy the little spare parts kit that MEC sells with the wrench, extra jets, etc. It is definitely worth having for a stove that is not supported by the CQ's parts bin.
The beauty of the Whisperlite, Dragonfly, and most of the other compact external-tank stoves is that the burner unit packs up small enough to fit inside a canteen cup, producing a very compact, lightweight and reasonably damage-resistant package that can be carried in the accessible outside pouch of your ruck.
As an aside, it has been my experience that you signficantly increase the performance of such stoves by employing the lightweight aluminum reflector and wind-screen. These items are durable and can be folded up into a compact bundle for storage in the same canteen cup as the stove. I find that I get approximately 1/3 shorter boil-times when I take the extra few minutes to set up the base-reflector and wind-screen.
Any of the high-quality compact multi-fuel stoves is a very wise investment. Nothing beats a hot coffee/tea/mocha after a frosty night on a mountain-top....or in the bottom of a muddy fire trench....
- Reaction score
- 3
- Points
- 430
~RoKo~ said:
That sucks...I'd junk it and get the optimus! ;D
Seriously though, here's another great piece of kit to that can replace your brew-up kit combo of canteen cup and esbit/canteen cup stove with heat tabs:
Jetboil www.jetboil.com
This thing is a tiny compressed gas stove that packed up with its integral pot/heat exchanger is no larger than a 1 litre nalgene bottle. The main drawback though is that it runs on propane, so it's pretty much limited to use in Canada/North America as the fuel is difficult to obtain in 3rd world countries. Also, since it's a propane stove, you may notice some lack of performance in winter ops.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
Matt_Fisher said:
And (presumably) high-altitude ops? I don't purport to understand the properties of propane, but I would think that it is optimized for a "normal" range of elevations.
No offence Matt (you know I love ya man!), but where the hell are you going to get Jet-Boil-specific fuel cells in Bagram or Bagdhad? Or better yet, in Tora Bora? At least until the respective PXs start carrying them......
I gotta say, the Jet-Boil looks like every soldier's dream....until I consider the propane fuel dilemma. Now, somebody show me a White Gas or JP-8 pump-action fuel-bottle that will produce results comparable to the Jet-Boil, yet which packs up into a canteen cup and is multi-fuel, and "ladies and gents" we will have have a true winner!
- Reaction score
- 3
- Points
- 430
Mark,
No offence taken and I love you too. :-* *laughing as my wife reads this post over my shoulder and thinks I've gone nutty, but I'd say it's more due to the amount I drank at the polo game I just came home from* When I posted the info on the Jetboil I mentioned that the fuel is difficult to obtain overseas. What I should have made a greater point of mentioning is that the Jetboil is a great piece of kit for use domestically and that the user should be aware that it's gonna be hard to obtain fuel overseas.
That said though, I do know some guys that have gone to Afghanistan and either smuggled supplies of the stuff in as part of their embark loads, or had the fuel canisters mailed to them as part of care packages. However taking compressed gas cylinders onboard a military transport is gonna make the crew-chief and loadmaster go apeshit if they find out as if one of those things ruptures and explodes, it could down the whole plane...mind you though there's a whole ton of other things that are transported aboard military airlift that are far more explosive than compressed gas cylinders...ie. Ammo and C4.
Mark, as far as your "soldier's dream" compact multi-fuel stove...Natick is currently working on a stove that runs off JP-8 and is in the size/weight range of the Jetboil called the "Modular Individual Water Heater".
http://www.natick.army.mil/soldier/media/fact/food/miwh.htm
The stove pictured supposedly is not the actual one being developed, and is supposed to be coming online sometime in '05. I may actually get to use one on Battle Griffin in Norway this winter, but I'm still packing my Optimus in case they're not in the system or they suck... :
No offence taken and I love you too. :-* *laughing as my wife reads this post over my shoulder and thinks I've gone nutty, but I'd say it's more due to the amount I drank at the polo game I just came home from* When I posted the info on the Jetboil I mentioned that the fuel is difficult to obtain overseas. What I should have made a greater point of mentioning is that the Jetboil is a great piece of kit for use domestically and that the user should be aware that it's gonna be hard to obtain fuel overseas.
That said though, I do know some guys that have gone to Afghanistan and either smuggled supplies of the stuff in as part of their embark loads, or had the fuel canisters mailed to them as part of care packages. However taking compressed gas cylinders onboard a military transport is gonna make the crew-chief and loadmaster go apeshit if they find out as if one of those things ruptures and explodes, it could down the whole plane...mind you though there's a whole ton of other things that are transported aboard military airlift that are far more explosive than compressed gas cylinders...ie. Ammo and C4.
Mark, as far as your "soldier's dream" compact multi-fuel stove...Natick is currently working on a stove that runs off JP-8 and is in the size/weight range of the Jetboil called the "Modular Individual Water Heater".
http://www.natick.army.mil/soldier/media/fact/food/miwh.htm
The stove pictured supposedly is not the actual one being developed, and is supposed to be coming online sometime in '05. I may actually get to use one on Battle Griffin in Norway this winter, but I'm still packing my Optimus in case they're not in the system or they suck... :
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
Matt,
Make your Wife look away! Is she looking away??? Yes??? OK then - I Love you Man!!!
OK, with that emotionally trying business out of the way, I have heard fantastic things about the Jetboil stove on Lightfighter.com and elsewhere. But as you said, it is all a function of fuel availability, etc. And in the case of the aircraft "Loadies", it becomes a big-time question of "Fuel Acceptabilitiy". As far as the helo or Herc Loadmasters are concerned, "What they don't know won't hurt them". At the end of the day, if you are combat loading 36 troops on a Chinook with ammo, frags, thermite, containers of trigran, det-cord, dets, etc, etc, then I would have to agree with you that personal propane cylinders are the least of ANYONE's worry!
Having said that, back home working with the Canadian Air Force who own the aircraft (and with whom we must work), I cannot stress enough to the guys reading this board that compressed fuel cylinders will NOT generate unheralded joy with the Crew-Chief of your aircraft. Be it an 8-man chalk on a Griffon, or a 50-man para chalk on a CC-130. True enough that what the "Loadie" doesn't know wont hurt him/her. What I am simply saying is that unless your unit is flying with declared "dangerous cargo manifest" (listed by specific type and pre-approved), you could end up screwing an entire company-level air assault or para-drop just because the Crew-Chief decided to randomly check the wrong side-pouch on a ruck and found the ill-fated "Jet-Boil" cartridge. Chances are slim, but I don't think that you would want to be that guy.....
How often do Canadian troops work with the hyper-anal-retentive Canadian aviation/air assets? Not really enough to worry about it, since we don't have enough lift within the CF to conduct company-level single-lift airmobile assaults unless we catch the entire Canadain Airforce Tac Hel community in one place, at one time, on a particularly good maintenance day, when the weather is just right. Enough said about our Army's "airmobile capability"...... Realistically speaking however, if you are doing the Airmobile/Air Assault thing, the "Jet-Boil" cartridges are worth thinking about and investigating. If you are "Dangerous Cargo" certified and "bombed-up" flying NOE? Who frigging cares? A couple of self-contained fuel canisters are the LEAST of your worries!
But if you are getting on a Herc for a hop, or are taking a hel-flip for a short jump at unusual altitudes, etc? Well, then it might be best to check the acceptability of those fuel cylinders ahead of time. Better safe than sorry....
Which is why I go right back to the non-pressurized fuel tank for an MSR Whisperlite, Dragonfly, etc, stove. Plain old fuel (be it Naptha, JP-8, or gasoline) doesn't tend to get the zoomies in quite the same state of utterly irrational paranoia as compressed gasses do. Don't ask me why... Quite frankly, I can't see anyone getting terribly excited in a combat zone when the bird is already loaded with enough munitions to create a significant mushroom cloud. Fuels were never an issue when we were flying with the U.S. Airforce or Army Aviation guys in Afghanistan. Having said that, pressurized fuel is apparently cause for particular concern....
Just my outdated observations having worked with the U.S Airforce, the U.S. Army, and the Canadian Airforce over the years. The latter will tend to be exceedingly "Anal" - perhaps because they have never flown in actual combat operations. I dunno, and I won't presume. All I will simply offer the Canadian fellows on this board is my "take it or leave it" advice that you stand a much better chance of ending up at "Point B" with a fuelled stove if you opt for one of the non-compressed fuel-bottle types. Pre-loaded fuel cartridges are going to cause you grief in the peace-time Canadian Army if you are are getting on a Canadian Aircraft and manage to get caught with them. Having said that, how often do you get to execute airborne/airmobile ops in the Canadian Army? And the answer is......well just draw your own conclusions about your preferred stove type....
Cheers,
Make your Wife look away! Is she looking away??? Yes??? OK then - I Love you Man!!!
OK, with that emotionally trying business out of the way, I have heard fantastic things about the Jetboil stove on Lightfighter.com and elsewhere. But as you said, it is all a function of fuel availability, etc. And in the case of the aircraft "Loadies", it becomes a big-time question of "Fuel Acceptabilitiy". As far as the helo or Herc Loadmasters are concerned, "What they don't know won't hurt them". At the end of the day, if you are combat loading 36 troops on a Chinook with ammo, frags, thermite, containers of trigran, det-cord, dets, etc, etc, then I would have to agree with you that personal propane cylinders are the least of ANYONE's worry!
Having said that, back home working with the Canadian Air Force who own the aircraft (and with whom we must work), I cannot stress enough to the guys reading this board that compressed fuel cylinders will NOT generate unheralded joy with the Crew-Chief of your aircraft. Be it an 8-man chalk on a Griffon, or a 50-man para chalk on a CC-130. True enough that what the "Loadie" doesn't know wont hurt him/her. What I am simply saying is that unless your unit is flying with declared "dangerous cargo manifest" (listed by specific type and pre-approved), you could end up screwing an entire company-level air assault or para-drop just because the Crew-Chief decided to randomly check the wrong side-pouch on a ruck and found the ill-fated "Jet-Boil" cartridge. Chances are slim, but I don't think that you would want to be that guy.....
How often do Canadian troops work with the hyper-anal-retentive Canadian aviation/air assets? Not really enough to worry about it, since we don't have enough lift within the CF to conduct company-level single-lift airmobile assaults unless we catch the entire Canadain Airforce Tac Hel community in one place, at one time, on a particularly good maintenance day, when the weather is just right. Enough said about our Army's "airmobile capability"...... Realistically speaking however, if you are doing the Airmobile/Air Assault thing, the "Jet-Boil" cartridges are worth thinking about and investigating. If you are "Dangerous Cargo" certified and "bombed-up" flying NOE? Who frigging cares? A couple of self-contained fuel canisters are the LEAST of your worries!
But if you are getting on a Herc for a hop, or are taking a hel-flip for a short jump at unusual altitudes, etc? Well, then it might be best to check the acceptability of those fuel cylinders ahead of time. Better safe than sorry....
Which is why I go right back to the non-pressurized fuel tank for an MSR Whisperlite, Dragonfly, etc, stove. Plain old fuel (be it Naptha, JP-8, or gasoline) doesn't tend to get the zoomies in quite the same state of utterly irrational paranoia as compressed gasses do. Don't ask me why... Quite frankly, I can't see anyone getting terribly excited in a combat zone when the bird is already loaded with enough munitions to create a significant mushroom cloud. Fuels were never an issue when we were flying with the U.S. Airforce or Army Aviation guys in Afghanistan. Having said that, pressurized fuel is apparently cause for particular concern....
Just my outdated observations having worked with the U.S Airforce, the U.S. Army, and the Canadian Airforce over the years. The latter will tend to be exceedingly "Anal" - perhaps because they have never flown in actual combat operations. I dunno, and I won't presume. All I will simply offer the Canadian fellows on this board is my "take it or leave it" advice that you stand a much better chance of ending up at "Point B" with a fuelled stove if you opt for one of the non-compressed fuel-bottle types. Pre-loaded fuel cartridges are going to cause you grief in the peace-time Canadian Army if you are are getting on a Canadian Aircraft and manage to get caught with them. Having said that, how often do you get to execute airborne/airmobile ops in the Canadian Army? And the answer is......well just draw your own conclusions about your preferred stove type....
Cheers,
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 160
The funny thing is that at altitude due to the decreased atmospheric pressure the performance of cartridge stoves increases. This is why in the summer months a lot of mountaineers will carry isobutane stoves on their summit pushes as they are lighter in the short run. Most of the modern backpacking stoves use a butane propane or an isobutane propane mix fuel as it develops a lower pressure than straight propane and as such allows the use of a lighter canister. For full four season all condition use nothing matches liquid fuel stoves. The key to using any stove in the winter/cold is to use a stove pad and a windscreen, you will get faster boil times and use less fuel which will save you weight.
Now I am not infantry but wouldn't it make sense to issue, say a good quality two man tent and a good quality single burner stove to each fire team?
Now I am not infantry but wouldn't it make sense to issue, say a good quality two man tent and a good quality single burner stove to each fire team?
- Reaction score
- 3
- Points
- 430
Ok, I did some digging and found some more information on the "Modular Individual Water Heater". It looks like Natick has been working with MSR www.msrcorp.com and a company called Vapore www.vapore.com to develop a new system of atomizing fuel streams for stoves, among other applications. The result is a lightweight (just over 1 lbs.) stove/heat excanger/pot combo. The civvie version of the MIWH will probably be the MSR Capillary Stove, available for private purchase in the summer of 2005. It should definitely give Jetboil some competition and us users that are dependent on JP-8/Kerosene/Naptha as our fuel sources a new shiny piece of kit to spend our money on.
Here are the articles online that you can check out for more information:
"The Curiously Strong Pump", Wired, November 2003
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.11/start.html?pg=9
"not even the kitchen sink", Mechanical Engineering
http://www.memagazine.org/contents/current/features/kitsink/kitsink.html
"The Star of the Show", Outside Online
http://outside.away.com/outside/gear/gearguy/or_2004wrap_1.html
Here are the articles online that you can check out for more information:
"The Curiously Strong Pump", Wired, November 2003
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.11/start.html?pg=9
"not even the kitchen sink", Mechanical Engineering
http://www.memagazine.org/contents/current/features/kitsink/kitsink.html
"The Star of the Show", Outside Online
http://outside.away.com/outside/gear/gearguy/or_2004wrap_1.html
- Reaction score
- 9,643
- Points
- 1,260
Gee, working with the civilian market which turns out superior products that must stand against the fickle desires of the open economy; why didn't our Army ever think about that?
I'm pretty anxious to see the MSR civvie version of that stove now. May as well get the VISA out.
I'm pretty anxious to see the MSR civvie version of that stove now. May as well get the VISA out.
N
Niss
Guest
I work at Angies Outdoor in Barrie Ontario and we contacted Jetboil to inquire carrying their product, I first saw jetboil on the LF forum and i couldnt aggree more with what they said there, but unfortunatly Jetboill has no interest in selling the product to canadian stores. They only way u can get it folks is online, no store to walk into. Which means getting fuel canisters could be more difficult than you think.
- Reaction score
- 3
- Points
- 430
Kinda odd that Jetboil doesn't want to market their product in Canada...It may be that they prefer to deal directly with a wholesale distributor and they don't have one yet for Canada.
As far as getting their fuel canisters, the Snow Peak GigaPower 110 LPG Fuel Canister from MEC fits the jetboil and nests witht the system perfectly.
http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=672789&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=16597&bmUID=1095086436081
As far as getting their fuel canisters, the Snow Peak GigaPower 110 LPG Fuel Canister from MEC fits the jetboil and nests witht the system perfectly.
http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=672789&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=16597&bmUID=1095086436081
N
Niss
Guest
We called them and they said that at the moment they have no interest in selling in Canada.
- Reaction score
- 3
- Points
- 430
Infanteer,
I haven't heard a peep, but I'm expecting that the civvie version is to hit the market next spring/summer.
I haven't heard a peep, but I'm expecting that the civvie version is to hit the market next spring/summer.
Arctic Acorn
Full Member
- Reaction score
- 3
- Points
- 230
I'm always kinda hesitant to speak up and say his, but I'm really happy with my MSR whisperlite. I know some folks that have had nothing but problems with theirs, and can't believe that I actually prefer it.
The biggest problem with the whisperlite is the fuel pump assembly. In a nutshell, it sucks ass. It leaked, was made of plastic, and had two settings: off, and ON!.
However, MSR came up with a newly redesigned pump, and it is far superior. Ever since I bought it, I've had no problems at all with my stove.
I'll happily use it until the capilarry stove comes online, and then I'll just as happily bin it (much to my wife's chagrin...)
:dontpanic:
T.A.
The biggest problem with the whisperlite is the fuel pump assembly. In a nutshell, it sucks ass. It leaked, was made of plastic, and had two settings: off, and ON!.
However, MSR came up with a newly redesigned pump, and it is far superior. Ever since I bought it, I've had no problems at all with my stove.
I'll happily use it until the capilarry stove comes online, and then I'll just as happily bin it (much to my wife's chagrin...)
:dontpanic:
T.A.
Similar threads
