Fighting & Winning The Global War on Terror (WW IV)

[Acorn]

MacKenzie, I think it may well be easy for you. You won't have to volunteer for any Canadian deployment to Iraq. However, many of us do not have that option, nor do we choose to make political statements. The fact is, any decision to provide Canadian military participation in Iraq is a political one, and not your place to criticize as a member of the CF (reg or res).

As for the list of countries you think should be a higher priority, you haven't a clue what you are talking about. Egypt and Syria?

Acorn

 

[McG]

okay, for the last time, correct me if Im wrong, how many terrorists are there in iraq? i dont see any...

That's right, chopping heads of reconstruction workers & executing humanitarian aid workers the publishing the videos to terrorize an enemy is not terrorism.

we should be prioritizing countries with the highest level of terrorist activity first (saudi arabia, egypt, syria,).Wouldnt that make sense?

The west has political influence that Saudi Arabia and Egypt respond to.  Should we invade before the political avenues are exhausted?

Its a symbolic battle of west vs east.

No.  It is symbolic of West vs Islamic extremism.

 

[1feral1]

As for the list of countries you think should be a higher priority, you haven't a clue what you are talking about. Egypt and Syria?

Acorn

You took the words right out of my mouth.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[jmackenzie_15]

Are you kidding me? you sir, were sold.

Iraq never had the capacity to do ANYTHING, its nuclear weapons program had been shut down after the first invasion, (which crippled their entire country I might add, people were still dying from lack of water and food and access to medical equipment to the day before the invasion.) and no traces of it being reactivated, chemical weapons or biological were found by the IAEA.Hussein's regime had also not been suspected of funding any terrorist organizations either... so, then we're just as likely to be attacked by anyone then.

Again, for the 3rd time, go after the countries responsible, and the ones making the threats, and the ones harboring terrorists.The allies didnt bomb norway to fight germany.

Acorn, Egpyt and Syria are known to have connections to Al Qaeda, and many 'suspected terrorists' that have already been arrested or sought after are from these countries.Is that not worth investigating?

 

[1feral1]

and Wes, you do realize by benefit canada , I meant benefit us by destroying threats to our people.Thats a benefit.You assumed i was talking about money.We will help NOTHING by going to iraq, and thats the point ive been trying to make all along.Thats the americans problem, theyll deal with it.IMO, it has very little to do with actual terrorism.Its a symbolic battle of west vs east.Id rather spend our time attempting to locate the actual threats than 'stickin it to the brown guys'.

Money? Not! Canada's contribution might be small if sent to Iraq, but its the stand that takes, and the message it sends. I don't give a dirty great big giant shyte about dosh (money), and i don't even see how that even came up?

'In for a penny, in for a pound' means 'all or nothing', and has got nothing to do with $$$ whatsoever.

Whatca smokin?

Wes

 

[McG]

Again, for the 3rd time, go after the countries responsible, and the ones making the threats, and the ones harboring terrorists.

Are you still saying we should use a military solution in other countries before exhausting the political options?

 

[jmackenzie_15]

Since i specifically said "INVADE" instead of "prioritize"... oh wait, I didnt.

West vs East, i didnt think I had to elaborate because i was referring to what you said earlier about western society vs islamic extremeism, but good on you.

"That's right, chopping heads of reconstruction workers & executing humanitarian aid workers the publishing the videos to terrorize an enemy is not terrorism."
- exploiting our media, knowing how much influence it has over our society, is a pretty sound strategy in waning public support for the invasion.Their goal is to end the American
occupation of their country, theyre doing what they have to.And by the way, Napalming people isnt very nice either, and dont say it didnt happen, dozens and dozens of people, some of them english reporters, dont just make up stories about bombs filled with gas that melts your skin off.

Wes you said you questioned my ethics or something because I said we stood nothing to benefit from sending troops to the country.I Dont see how thats an ehtically bad thing to say, shouldnt our goal as country at this point be to protect ourselves and our allies? ... anything beneficial .... 'beneficial' to that cause, would be a good thing would it not.

 

[jmackenzie_15]

I never said we should just use military action and invade, i was implyingt hey should be dealt with. However that needs to be done, get it done.If you can get it done by offerring them bananas to stop funding terrorists, then go ahead and do that.The method isnt as important as accomplishing the goal which is supposed to be exterminating terrorism.

 

[1feral1]

Are you kidding me? you sir, were sold.

Iraq never had the capacity to do ANYTHING,

One can do this by sponsoring and/or paying for a terrorist attack, you don't need a nuke to have an a PL of extremeists go into shopping centres with back-pack bombs on to kill thousands on a Thu night shopping day before Christmas in any western city. There is a million other ways too. Think about it.

We have one Islamic terr right here in Sydney who is on trail for planning bombing plots in Sydney, at an military establishment, and power grids, plus he had a host of other plots too, and he was/is not working alone. Over 125 Australians have been killed already by terrorist attacks outside Australia since 11 Sep 00.

Try www.dfat.gov.au right now to see the warnings as we expect more JI terr attacks on western targets in the Australiasian perimiter. It was only a matter of weeks ago that our embassy in Jakarta was attacked with the deaths of 9 innocent people. Plus the Kuta beach bombings in Bali, which killed 89 Aussies ( many local girls from my neighbourhood - all under 30 yrs old) and even a Canadian man from Wynyard, Saskatchewan.

BTW, You did not answer my question if the US had done nothing.

Well, I and we are waiting.....

Wes

 

[McG]

Since i specifically said "INVADE" instead of "prioritize"... oh wait, I didnt.

But how are these Arab state relevant to your argument if they would not tie up military & reconstruction resources that we could send to Iraq?

 

[jmackenzie_15]

In conclusion, before you jump all over evreything I say, let me clarify exactly what it is im trying to say, so we all understand:

1.Canada would not achieve anything by sending a military force to iraq.The troops could be better served elsewhere, or at home training for the inevitable larger problem.However, I am in favor of sending aid workers and other personnell from Canada to rebuild the country and establish infrastructure.

2.Instead of focusing our attention on looking for threats from withing Iraq, /I/ Think that we should be investigating alot of other places first.Ie, Saudi Arabia, whom the majority of the hijackers were born from.Other countries like syria and egypt also have extensive terrorist links.

 

[Acorn]

Acorn, Egpyt and Syria are known to have connections to Al Qaeda, and many 'suspected terrorists' that have already been arrested or sought after are from these countries.Is that not worth investigating?

No, young feller, they are not "known" beyond the fact that Egyptian and Syrian citizens have been implicated in A-Q terrorism, primarily in Afghanistan and Iraq. Of course, citizens of Morocco, Tunisia, Lebanon, Israel(Palestine), the UK, US, Indonesia ad nauseum have also been so implicated. Why aren't they on your list?

Do you have any concept of the politics of the Egyptian and Syrian governments? The greatest irony in your assumption is the greater similarity between the Syrian and Iraqi Baath aprties and yet somehow Iraq is a mistake, and Syria is a more important enemy. Top that with Egypt's very secular, somewhat socialist, albeit undemoocratic, government and I can only conclude that your knowledge derives from some rather single minded propaganda pieces published in some very biased news sources.

In the words of Yoda: clue, you do not have.

Acorn

 

[jmackenzie_15]

Wes, if the US had not invaded, likely nothing would have happened.In fact, i think the chances of another foreign attack on north america are significantly increased.This war is creating sympathizers.Like I said, according to the CIA and the IAEA, Iraq had no massive weapon capability, were building any, or were planning to attack the united states or its allies, or funding terrorists.So that being said, I dont think invading has really done much in the way of harming the terrorist organization.

IMHO, and a controversial one, Bush took this opportunity to attack Iraq, more specifically Saddam Hussein, whom he seems to have taken a personal fight with or something."This is the guy that tried to kill my dad at one time". Not to mention the amount of money to be made by Bush himself, and by Dick Cheney.Their oil and contruction companies are making BILLIONS. You cant say that didnt influence any of the presidents decesions AT ALL. Maybe he did think iraq was a security risk, but id bet he was also eyeing up a chance at revenge and a good peice of change.

 

[jmackenzie_15]

By the way, your refferring to me as 'Young Feller' perhaps taking a stab at my maturity, yet your the one quoting star wars to support an argument.

 

[McG]

Wes, if the US had not invaded, likely nothing would have happened.In fact, i think the chances of another foreign attack on north america are significantly increased.

But they did invade, so you can stop arguing as though a world where that never happened is still a possibility.  If the efforts in Iraq are done right & succeed, there will be no increased chance of terrorism.

 

[1feral1]

Did you know that the US has had over 1200 KIA, and thousands WIA many left without limbs,etc? That 1200+ KIA is twice the amount Canada and Australia lost in Korea, and twice the amount we lost in a 10yr battle in Viet Nam.

One day this war is gonna end, the sheer determination of the west will see it through. Again the price of YOUR freedom and security is paid with their blood, as you sit back, and do nothing but critisise whats going on. Sadly maybe only when this gets personal for you, you might see the truth rather than leftist gobbledygook.

Try saying what you are saying to the mates of the fallen, or parents of the local girls who were murdered in cold blood by Islamic terrorsts on 12 Oct 01.

 : Wes

McDonalds can offer you a career too.

 

[Kirkhill]

Michael Moore,  You Have a Heck of a lot to Answer for................ : :rage: ???

 

[1feral1]

Wes, if the US had not invaded, likely nothing would have happened.
Bush took this opportunity to attack Iraq, more specifically Saddam Hussein,

Mate, I think one of two things:

a) you have really lost the plot
b) a troll just wanting to stir the shye pot

I think you    :blotto: have been sitting in a leftest uni pub reading leftist   articles, maybe smoking dope and sipping warm beer with a bunch of others with the same views. And you are a member of the CF? Or are you?

Why, why, why did I 'bite'. I guess I should have known better. Another ostrich with his head in the sand. Don't worry this bad naughty war will go away.

 

[jmackenzie_15]

"But they did invade, so you can stop arguing as though a world where that never happened is still a possibility.  If the efforts in Iraq are done right & succeed, there will be no increased chance of terrorism."
^ I was answering a direct question, you're obviously just out for an argument since thats the second time you tried to pick a point out of nothing.

Did you know that the US has had over 1200 KIA, and thousands WIA many left without limbs,etc? That 1200+ KIA is twice the amount Canada and Australia lost in Korea, and twice the amount we lost in a 10yr battle in Viet Nam.

^ Irrellevant totally

One day this war is gonna end, the sheer determination of the west will see it through. Again the price of YOUR freedom and security is paid with their blood, as you sit back, and do nothing but critisise whats going on. Sadly maybe only when this gets personal for you, you might see the truth rather than leftist gobbledygook.

^Alot of people will say the insurgent fighters are a hell of a lot more determined than we are.The american people see a few dead soldiers on tv and public support drops.How many family members have the iraqis lost, yet they fight on.I just got home from work, if im not mistaken it was training for this exact type of scenario I may have to participate in the near futute, gotta love OBUA.In case your doubting the legitamacy of the reserves, 3 of the guys from my company alone returned from aghan in february.Oh wait, I do nothing but sit around and criticize between working in the reserves and going to school to get a policing degree.Yes, I am a lazy, lazy citizen.It became personal enough for me when someone I knew was killed in new york, and a Corporal who lived down the road from me was killed in afghanistan.

Try saying what you are saying to the mates of the fallen, or parents of the local girls who were murdered in cold blood by Islamic terrorsts on 12 Oct 01.

^Bombing hospitals and schools full of kids isnt cold blooded though.Neither is napalming them.Thats war, people die.Quit being sucked in by the media. " cold blooded evil terrorists, damn them".If they had the media power we did, Youd see alot of other ugly things.Ill assume your forgetting all about Gitmo and Abu Gharib for starters.

 : Wes

McDonalds can offer you a career too.

^ so can Carolyn Parrish

Its a good sign that youve lost the argument when you start throwing in random derrogatory comments, and attempting to put together statements to sound important that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand. Hmm terrorism versus casualties in korea... yes, I can see the links.

 

[jmackenzie_15]

I think you    have been sitting in a leftest uni pub reading leftist  articles, maybe smoking dope and sipping warm beer with a bunch of others with the same views. And you are a member of the CF? Or are you?

^ Because you dont agree with my opinion, which i clearly stated that it was to begin with, lets see, im a left winged dope smoking alchoholic.Wes, with all due respect, you're a
jackass.end of conversation.