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The best gun salesman in the US has done it again. Expect increased shortages of ammo, firearms and supplies once more.
Firearms - The US Discussion Thread
- Thread starter KevinB
- Start date
As far as I understand it, all the new laws will do is make background checks mandatory and require dealers to obtain federal licenses. Is this really a reason to panic and assume "Obama is after everyone's guns?"
If you pass a background check, you're good to go.
If you pass a background check, you're good to go.
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Instapundit nails it yet again: Gun control as theatre, rather than any form of effective or nuanced response to a "problem". Of course manipulative use of deceptive statistics and ignoring issues that don't support the narrative is all part and parcel of the Progressive project, and the ultimate end is always about power and control, not whatever the putative "problem" is:
http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/223186/
http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/223186/
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Kilo_302 said:
You clearly misunderstand the US gun owner psyche. Or more generally, the trust factor the American public has in Obama. Every time he opens his mouth and says 'gun control' or talks about 2nd amendment rights, firearms and equipment sales go through the roof.
You're right, I don't understand their psyche at all. I would think background checks are a completely reasonable and appropriate measure. Any law abiding citizen has nothing to fear.
As for the American public, the majority clearly want something done with regards to further regulation. As for the minority, sales might go through the roof when he opens his mouth, but is this a rational reaction based on reality?
As for the American public, the majority clearly want something done with regards to further regulation. As for the minority, sales might go through the roof when he opens his mouth, but is this a rational reaction based on reality?
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Kilo_302 said:
A gun owner selling a single gun may have to register as a dealer or sell through a dealer or risk being fined $25,000 should some bureaucrat determine he should have been registered. Background checks are done through registered dealers. Private sales of guns do not have federal background checks. Firearms are otherwise a state concern with a whole variety of different regulation.
Colin Parkinson
Army.ca Myth
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Kilo_302 said:
The number of convictions for firearms offenses under Obama has dropped, if a felony tries to buy a gun and is denied, they have just committed another felony, but the chances of being punished are almost zip. As for the new stuff it appears to be a mess, the whole issue of Trusts and the NFA appears to be wasted effort, with only 12 people with a NFA license being charged. The real issues will come out a week or so as people dig into it and what it says, already it appears to contradict itself according to some.
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Kilo_302 said:
And when has a background check ever stopped someone who wants a gun from getting one? Never?
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I hear criminals are really good at following laws.
Jarnhamar
Army.ca Myth
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The male gunmen in the San Bernardino shooting knew he wouldn't pass a background check so he borrowed his relatives.Rocky Mountains said:
You could argue background checks tentatively stop some people from getting firearms. The trick being they can just borrow someone elses.
Care to cite your sources for that particular assertion? Don't get me wrong, the current political climate down south is going to the implementation of universal background checks an overall failure but I reject outright that not one person would be prevented from getting a gun.Rocky Mountains said:
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jpjohnsn said:
Why should someone have to prove gun control works? Shouldn't someone proposing further controls show exactly how many gun deaths they're going to stop with legislation? You would find significant more support for gun control if the gun control lobby did any sort of research as to how many deaths/injuries each rule would save, using historical data, instead of saying "guns bad, ban them" and hope it fixes the problem.
In a free and democratic society, you should have to show how infringing on someone's freedom will help the greater good, instead of "trust me". Dictators and socialists impose rules without data to back them up.
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And stop talking about "gun deaths". That is a red herring. The means by which somebody is murdered or commits suicide is irrelevant. The best that gun laws can do is push somebody to use an alternatve method of killing him/herself or somebody else if they cannot acquire a firearm. They do not reduce overall murder or suicide rates.
And that non-benefit comes at the cost of leaving people helpless when confronted by violent criminals - those people who never have to undergo a background check.
And that non-benefit comes at the cost of leaving people helpless when confronted by violent criminals - those people who never have to undergo a background check.
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Some will dismiss this instantly because it is Wayne LapIerre and the NRA. That being said, he cites some things that I didn't know...
https://www.nranews.com/series/wayne-lapierre/video/wayne-lapierre-the-truth-about-background-checks/episode/wayne-lapierre-season-1-episode-5-the-truth-about-background-checks
The White House tweeted today that you can buy guns online without a background check, and that is not true - other than perhaps a private sale. I have bought guns from online dealers and they have to ship to an FFL. The FFL does the background check.
https://www.nranews.com/series/wayne-lapierre/video/wayne-lapierre-the-truth-about-background-checks/episode/wayne-lapierre-season-1-episode-5-the-truth-about-background-checks
The White House tweeted today that you can buy guns online without a background check, and that is not true - other than perhaps a private sale. I have bought guns from online dealers and they have to ship to an FFL. The FFL does the background check.
Colin Parkinson
Army.ca Myth
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Loachman said:
I love it when people quote Japan as a role model in regards to gun suicides and such, the rebuttal is like shooting fish in a barrel.
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Yes, and I do that too, but...
It is extremely difficult to compare statistics internationally, because many/most countries have more stringent, looser, or different definitions. Japan's cultural differences - such as its concept of honour - affect things in ways not normally expected.
Many murders that might bring dishonour to families are, apparently, officially deemed to be suicides as suicide is more accepted. That, obviously, inflates suicide rates and deflates homicide rates. And then there are police attitudes:
http://articles.latimes.com/2007/nov/09/world/fg-autopsy9
Japan's police see no evil
A drive to keep crime statistics low often fosters an official aversion to autopsies, critics say.
November 09, 2007|Bruce Wallace | Times Staff Writer
TOKYO - Photos of the teenager's corpse show a deep cut on his right arm, horrific bruising on his neck and chest. His face is swollen and covered with cuts. A silhouette of violence runs from the corner of his left eye over the cheekbone to his jaw, and his legs are pocked with small burns the size of a lighted cigarette.
But police in Japan's Aichi prefecture saw something else when they looked at the body of Takashi Saito, a 17-year-old sumo wrestler who arrived at a hospital in June. The cause of death was "heart disease," police declared.
As is common in Japan, Aichi police reached their verdict on how Saito died without an autopsy. No need for a coroner, they said. No crime involved. Only 6.3% of the unnatural deaths in Aichi are investigated by a medical examiner, a minuscule rate even by nationwide standards in Japan, where an autopsy is performed in 11.2% of cases.
Forensic scientists say there are many reasons for the low rate, including inadequate budgets and a desperate shortage of pathologists outside the biggest urban areas. There is also a cultural resistance in Japan to handling the dead, with families often reluctant to insist upon a procedure that invades the body of a loved one.
But Saito's case has given credence to complaints by a group of frustrated doctors, former pathologists and ex-cops who argue that Japan's police culture is the main obstacle.
Police discourage autopsies that might reveal a higher homicide rate in their jurisdiction, and pressure doctors to attribute unnatural deaths to health reasons, usually heart failure, the group alleges. Odds are, it says, that people are getting away with murder in Japan, a country that officially claims one of the lowest per capita homicide rates in the world.
"You can commit a perfect murder in Japan because the body is not likely to be examined," says Hiromasa Saikawa, a former member of the Tokyo Metropolitan Police security and intelligence division. He says senior police officers are "obsessed with statistics because that's how you get promotions," and strive to reduce the number of criminal cases as much as possible to keep their almost perfect solution rate.
Japan's annual police report says its officers made arrests in 96.6% of the country's 1,392 homicides in 2005.
But Saikawa, who says he became disillusioned by "fishy" police practices and in 1997 left the force in disgust after 30 years, claims that police try to avoid adding homicides to their caseload unless the identity of the killer is obvious.
"All the police care about is how they look to people; it's all PR to show that their capabilities are high," Saikawa says. "Without autopsies they can keep their percentage [of solved cases] high. It's all about numbers."
The former policeman has written a memoir of his time on the force. Called "Policeman at the Scene," it describes a police culture that has chipped away at the effectiveness of an autopsy system created during the U.S. occupation after World War II.
"The police textbooks taught us not to trust doctors," he says, adding that police officers indirectly pressure doctors to sign death certificates without an autopsy. "Doctors are afraid of the police. They are afraid of retaliation. They worry the police could prosecute them for malpractice. So they are easily pressured.
"There is no one refereeing the police," Saikawa says. "It's scary."
After the war, Americans created a medical examiner's office for Tokyo after learning that thousands of deaths in the postwar rubble were being ascribed to starvation without any forensic examination. It was soon discovered that a tuberculosis epidemic was the main culprit.
The system was soon expanded to six other big cities which, for the most part, are the jurisdictions where autopsies are done with the most frequency (in 2004, autopsies were conducted in 29% of Kanagawa prefecture's unnatural deaths; 18% of those in Tokyo). But much of the country remains without a fully functioning medical examiner system.
"There aren't many doctors who want to do this kind of work and that means some areas don't have a medical examiner at all," says Dr. Masahiko Ueno, a former chief medical examiner in Tokyo who spent 30 years in the coroner's office until he retired in 1988. Since then he has written more than 30 books about the cases that animated his career and the cold cases that intrigue him in retirement.
Ueno says his experience leaves him convinced that many homicides are being missed and he, too, blames a system that gives police great discretion over when an autopsy is performed. Although doctors are legally required to report "unnatural deaths" to police, the country's medical act does not precisely define what that is.
The philosophical approach to death investigations differs between the West and Japan.
It is extremely difficult to compare statistics internationally, because many/most countries have more stringent, looser, or different definitions. Japan's cultural differences - such as its concept of honour - affect things in ways not normally expected.
Many murders that might bring dishonour to families are, apparently, officially deemed to be suicides as suicide is more accepted. That, obviously, inflates suicide rates and deflates homicide rates. And then there are police attitudes:
http://articles.latimes.com/2007/nov/09/world/fg-autopsy9
Japan's police see no evil
A drive to keep crime statistics low often fosters an official aversion to autopsies, critics say.
November 09, 2007|Bruce Wallace | Times Staff Writer
TOKYO - Photos of the teenager's corpse show a deep cut on his right arm, horrific bruising on his neck and chest. His face is swollen and covered with cuts. A silhouette of violence runs from the corner of his left eye over the cheekbone to his jaw, and his legs are pocked with small burns the size of a lighted cigarette.
But police in Japan's Aichi prefecture saw something else when they looked at the body of Takashi Saito, a 17-year-old sumo wrestler who arrived at a hospital in June. The cause of death was "heart disease," police declared.
As is common in Japan, Aichi police reached their verdict on how Saito died without an autopsy. No need for a coroner, they said. No crime involved. Only 6.3% of the unnatural deaths in Aichi are investigated by a medical examiner, a minuscule rate even by nationwide standards in Japan, where an autopsy is performed in 11.2% of cases.
Forensic scientists say there are many reasons for the low rate, including inadequate budgets and a desperate shortage of pathologists outside the biggest urban areas. There is also a cultural resistance in Japan to handling the dead, with families often reluctant to insist upon a procedure that invades the body of a loved one.
But Saito's case has given credence to complaints by a group of frustrated doctors, former pathologists and ex-cops who argue that Japan's police culture is the main obstacle.
Police discourage autopsies that might reveal a higher homicide rate in their jurisdiction, and pressure doctors to attribute unnatural deaths to health reasons, usually heart failure, the group alleges. Odds are, it says, that people are getting away with murder in Japan, a country that officially claims one of the lowest per capita homicide rates in the world.
"You can commit a perfect murder in Japan because the body is not likely to be examined," says Hiromasa Saikawa, a former member of the Tokyo Metropolitan Police security and intelligence division. He says senior police officers are "obsessed with statistics because that's how you get promotions," and strive to reduce the number of criminal cases as much as possible to keep their almost perfect solution rate.
Japan's annual police report says its officers made arrests in 96.6% of the country's 1,392 homicides in 2005.
But Saikawa, who says he became disillusioned by "fishy" police practices and in 1997 left the force in disgust after 30 years, claims that police try to avoid adding homicides to their caseload unless the identity of the killer is obvious.
"All the police care about is how they look to people; it's all PR to show that their capabilities are high," Saikawa says. "Without autopsies they can keep their percentage [of solved cases] high. It's all about numbers."
The former policeman has written a memoir of his time on the force. Called "Policeman at the Scene," it describes a police culture that has chipped away at the effectiveness of an autopsy system created during the U.S. occupation after World War II.
"The police textbooks taught us not to trust doctors," he says, adding that police officers indirectly pressure doctors to sign death certificates without an autopsy. "Doctors are afraid of the police. They are afraid of retaliation. They worry the police could prosecute them for malpractice. So they are easily pressured.
"There is no one refereeing the police," Saikawa says. "It's scary."
After the war, Americans created a medical examiner's office for Tokyo after learning that thousands of deaths in the postwar rubble were being ascribed to starvation without any forensic examination. It was soon discovered that a tuberculosis epidemic was the main culprit.
The system was soon expanded to six other big cities which, for the most part, are the jurisdictions where autopsies are done with the most frequency (in 2004, autopsies were conducted in 29% of Kanagawa prefecture's unnatural deaths; 18% of those in Tokyo). But much of the country remains without a fully functioning medical examiner system.
"There aren't many doctors who want to do this kind of work and that means some areas don't have a medical examiner at all," says Dr. Masahiko Ueno, a former chief medical examiner in Tokyo who spent 30 years in the coroner's office until he retired in 1988. Since then he has written more than 30 books about the cases that animated his career and the cold cases that intrigue him in retirement.
Ueno says his experience leaves him convinced that many homicides are being missed and he, too, blames a system that gives police great discretion over when an autopsy is performed. Although doctors are legally required to report "unnatural deaths" to police, the country's medical act does not precisely define what that is.
The philosophical approach to death investigations differs between the West and Japan.
Given the fact that Reagan was for more gun control than Obama, it's hard to see why Obama is so demonized by gun rights advocates. This just shows how irrational the discussion has become.
http://i100.independent.co.uk/article/republicans-seem-to-have-forgotten-their-icon-ronald-reagan-was-actually-far-tougher-on-guns-than-obama--by8DhSwxhl
http://i100.independent.co.uk/article/republicans-seem-to-have-forgotten-their-icon-ronald-reagan-was-actually-far-tougher-on-guns-than-obama--by8DhSwxhl
