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First Nations - CF help, protests, solutions, residential schools, etc. (merged)

I wonder how much involvement the Internet Research Agency has in all of this?  :whistle:

Because they must be rubbing their hands in glee at how easy it is to grind Canada's economy to a halt. Especially with the vast amounts of useful idiots plodding about our country.
 
FSTO said:
how easy it is to grind Canada's economy to a halt.

Protestors have already targeted MacMillan Yard. If they also target Symington Yard, that will take out the two largest rail classification yards in Canada.
 
If I were in charge I'd roll a locomotive up to 200 yds of the protest line, and start making a very big show of bolting up cow catchers.
 
Rock and a hard place. Any state action to forcibly remove them transforms dissidents engaging in anarchy for any cause into victims. And that we don’t need....
 
FSTO said:
... they must be rubbing their hands in glee at how easy it is to grind Canada's economy to a halt ...
A former CAF officer wrote about exactly how vulnerable Canada's economy is to such actions -- as well as how to head such things off at the pass -- in 2013 (links to PDF).  All I'll say is that it's interesting reading, with a quite few controversial ideas.
CloudCover said:
Rock and a hard place. Any state action to forcibly remove them transforms dissidents engaging in anarchy for any cause into victims. And that we don’t need....
:nod:
 
milnews.ca said:

Although these revenues are significant, the true value of Canada’s railway freight systems lies in its role as the indispensable economic enabler, linking national producers to domestic and foreign buyers.


 
Perhaps if our government had encouraged nationalism i.e. pride in our country of Canada instead of catering to multi-nationalism and pandering to complainers we would be hearing people speaking out loudly against this type of action.  This is not a rant against multi-nationalism by the way but an encouragement for nationalism.  People need to learn to take pride in Canada and not look back at the past.  The same concept applies to first nations.  They need to believe that they are Canadians with a rich heritage and not (insert tribe) and go from there.  Sadly, the police are doing the right thing.  But only because Canadians won't stand with them and say enough.  We are allowing ourselves to be bullied by what is, when all is said and done, a small minority of people with an axe to grind.
 
YZT580 said:
Perhaps if our government had encouraged nationalism i.e. pride in our country of Canada instead of catering to multi-nationalism and pandering to complainers we would be hearing people speaking out loudly against this type of action.  This is not a rant against multi-nationalism by the way but an encouragement for nationalism.  People need to learn to take pride in Canada and not look back at the past.  The same concept applies to first nations.  They need to believe that they are Canadians with a rich heritage and not (insert tribe) and go from there.  Sadly, the police are doing the right thing.  But only because Canadians won't stand with them and say enough.  We are allowing ourselves to be bullied by what is, when all is said and done, a small minority of people with an axe to grind.

Depends on what you define as nationalism. As well as how you define "multinationalism".

I would argue that the First Nations are practising the form of nationalism (albeit their own nationalism) I think you are trying to explain.  Did they ever define themselves or believe themselves as Canadian first?  Or was that definition imposed on them?  Many Quebecers and Newfoundlanders have the same mentality.  I think they absolutely believe they have a rich heritage, but many I suspect they don't see it in a Canadian context as much as they see it as a First Nations context. 

If we adopt a nationalist approach, would that not run counter to broker deals and relationships with other nations and get oil to tidewater?

I do however agree with your last statement about being bullied.   
 
YZT580 said:
Perhaps if our government had encouraged nationalism i.e. pride in our country of Canada instead of catering to multi-nationalism and pandering to complainers we would be hearing people speaking out loudly against this type of action.  This is not a rant against multi-nationalism by the way but an encouragement for nationalism.  People need to learn to take pride in Canada and not look back at the past.  The same concept applies to first nations.  They need to believe that they are Canadians with a rich heritage and not (insert tribe) and go from there.  Sadly, the police are doing the right thing.  But only because Canadians won't stand with them and say enough.  We are allowing ourselves to be bullied by what is, when all is said and done, a small minority of people with an axe to grind.

'Patriotism' probably fits what you're saying better than 'nationalism'. The latter has an exclusionary self-interest element that is the exact opposite of what we want to achieve with FNs.

The relationship between Canada and many of the first nations is, in a literal legal sense, a nation-to-nation relationship. In a lot of cases there isn't much of a Canadian identity there to nurture, and little for them to feel patriotic about. God knows we've given them little reason to over the last century. A couple decades of economic development (when it suits our own interests, of course) does not wave away many more decades of exploitation and abuse. We have a ton to work on.

The thing is, if 99% of Canadians were loudly standing up and voicing their opposition to thee protests, that would be a *political* matter, but it still wouldn't much change the calculus of the crisis. If it led to a forceful resolution, it would immediately - and pretty accurately - get chalked up as just more oppression.

Flip side to that, clearly the blockage of critical economic infrastructure is not something that can stand. Something's gotta give here. Negotiation may not achieve that. It looks pretty likely at this point that Coastal Gas Link's pipeline is gonna go into the ground, of course in accordance with the agreement with the majority of FNs impacted, including most of the Wet'sut'wen. The Mohawks are saying they won't end the blockade til RCMP are off Wet'sut'wen land; it doesn't seem likely that that can happen any time soon without this going back to square one.

So yeah, I don't know where that leaves us, and I don't envy those who make the decisions. I hope this can all get settled without anyone getting hurt.
 
Thank you.  Patriotism is the right word but the time for people to stand up and say I am Canadian was a long time ago.  The attitude needs to have been in place BEFORE.  The multi-national concept that Pierre encouraged is counter-productive.  It encourages a me-first attitude and with the high rate of immigration we need to start encouraging the change in attitude now.  Immigration is needed but those who come must come with the notion that they have left their old country behind and are now part of a new nation called Canada and that requires different loyalties.  That is one reason why some countries do not allow dual citizenship.  First nations are a prime example of dual citizenship at its worst.  They have been walled off from Canada by treaty and by history and never allowed to join in as equal citizens.  They are always Canadian AND.  But how to change it, I have no idea.  But change it we must or someone is going to get hurt and all of us are going to be less well off as a result and I am not thinking of finances but well off as a people.
 
YZT580 said:
Thank you.  Patriotism is the right word but the time for people to stand up and say I am Canadian was a long time ago.  The attitude needs to have been in place BEFORE.  The multi-national concept that Pierre encouraged is counter-productive.  It encourages a me-first attitude and with the high rate of immigration we need to start encouraging the change in attitude now.  Immigration is needed but those who come must come with the notion that they have left their old country behind and are now part of a new nation called Canada and that requires different loyalties.  That is one reason why some countries do not allow dual citizenship.  First nations are a prime example of dual citizenship at its worst.  They have been walled off from Canada by treaty and by history and never allowed to join in as equal citizens.  They are always Canadian AND.  But how to change it, I have no idea.  But change it we must or someone is going to get hurt and all of us are going to be less well off as a result and I am not thinking of finances but well off as a people.

One can still be patriotic and hold true to their heritage.  Canada has the same issues any "New world" country has.  Go to Australia, New Zealand, the US and you see the same phenomenon.  All of those countries have had waves of immigrants come in and help shape the country for what it is.  I think the issue is that the hyphen before or after "Canadian" is more a reference to culture than to citizenship.  Family and culture are intertwined.  A lot of people will be far more loyal to their family than to their country. 

It isn't something they just can easily drop and forget.

Canada tried to "canadianize" first nations before.  It didn't go so well and a lot of today's issues are a result of those attempts. 
 
The thing is first nations can't even agree on what land belongs to who. They're constantly fighting among themselves about borders and rights.  I'm pretty sure the Wet'suwet'en land claims are being claimed by another first nation who says it's actually their land.

600 nations arguing about borders when a hell of a lot of money in the form of natural resources are at stake isn't going to end well. Surely the Canadian settler government won't be the deciding factor on what belongs to who.

 
Jarnhamar said:
The thing is first nations can't even agree on what land belongs to who. They're constantly fighting among themselves about borders and rights.  I'm pretty sure the Wet'suwet'en land claims are being claimed by another first nation who says it's actually their land.

600 nations arguing about borders when a hell of a lot of money in the form of natural resources are at stake isn't going to end well. Surely the Canadian settler government won't be the deciding factor on what belongs to who.

So, kind of like Europe then, right? ;)
 
And now a border crossing.  Protesters are blocking access to the Thousand Islands bridge near Kingston, Ontario.

https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/protesters-block-access-road-to-thousand-islands-bridge-opp-1.4815369
 
dapaterson said:
And now a border crossing.  Protesters are blocking access to the Thousand Islands bridge near Kingston, Ontario.

Also the International Bridge at Niagara Falls.

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/anti-pipeline-protesters-block-international-bridge-in-niagara-falls-in-support-of-wet-suwet-en-1.4814447
 
A FB post I did:

130% of BC is claimed, Unless your planning a 1300km HDD drill your going to cross them. What bugs me is none of these "warriors" have bothered to read any of the Environmental Assessment report, where they would find that the company changed the route numerous times. Also telling is that the West Moberly First Nations agreed to this pipeline. I can tell you from personal experience that band is afraid of no one and will fight tooth and nail over something they disagree with. So you have one of the most likley bands to go court (see Site C) and they want this pipeline. Also ask the Haisla what it means to their future and the number of marine jobs their people will get. In fact if this project goes ahead, it is likley we will see at least 1-2 Haisla member as Ships Pilots within 20 years. Hope I am around to see such a thing.
 
Question here - who's cutting the cheques of the protestors? How do they manage to survive?
 
dapaterson said:
And now a border crossing.  Protesters are blocking access to the Thousand Islands bridge near Kingston, Ontario.

https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/protesters-block-access-road-to-thousand-islands-bridge-opp-1.4815369
Done ...
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/thousand-islands-bridge-canada-us-protests-1.5466440
 
Some funny videos of conversations with protestors out there.
Not quite sure what's in the pipes, where it comes from or where it's going but they sure are standing in solidarity.
 
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