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"First Nations told to attest to ancestry................."

mariomike

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"OTTAWA -- For the first time, aboriginal Canadians will have to swear a declaration and attest to their ancestry before landing an aboriginal-designated job in the federal public service.":
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2266637


 
Why don't we just appoint race police to investigate the purity of blood?  I think it's been done before.

Under accepted protocol, supposedly derived from Jay's Treaty, native status allows a Canadian to work in the US.  Apparently that included everyone except the red haired, freckle faced, registered Metis lady I know.  Apparently US border guards are better trained in racial identification.

Essentially one is whatever race they say they are because to say otherwise is racist.  Treaty Indians have treaty cards but these are based primarily on decent from ancestors who took treaty.  Some treaty Indians look really white.
 
The report reminds me a little bit of the story of Grey Owl:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_Owl

There was a also a scene in The Sopranos that it reminded me of:
"No offense, chief, but you don't look much like an Indian."

"Frankly, I passed most of my life as white, until I had a racial awakening and discovered my Mohonk blood, my grandmother on my father's side, her mother was a quarter Mohonk."

"And this happened when the casino was built, right?"

"Better later than never."

 
Link in first post of thread not working anymore - here's some alternate URLs:
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2266637
http://www.globaltvedmonton.com/Canada+aboriginals+told+attest+ancestry+qualify+select+public+service+jobs/2266679/story.html
http://www.canada.com/news/national/Canada+aboriginals+told+attest+ancestry+qualify+select+public+service+jobs/2266620/story.html
 
People that dwell on race for whatever reason have problems.

I corresponded with someone for years before meeting him.  He had said he always ticked the box beside black on forms.  Himmler's best men couldn't have determined he was black but apparently one of his parents was.  It might have gotten him into an otherwise out of reach school.

Apparently many Eastern European Jews tick the Hispanic box on forms on the theory that their ancestors were kicked out of Spain during the Inquisition.  I assume it goes on and on and on ........

 
Dennis Ruhl said:
Apparently many Eastern European Jews tick the Hispanic box on forms on the theory that their ancestors were kicked out of Spain during the Inquisition.  I assume it goes on and on and on ........

:o

Where the hell did you get this one, and where is it done?
References would be nice.

dileas

tess

 
I don't know if this is of interest, or relevant, but FYI, if interested:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic#Religious_diversity
 
I never felt comfortable checking off 'aboriginal' on any forms or applications even thought I have native ancestry on my mother's side, even if what I identify with the most and involved with native issues, events, and such. That and I am pale white (more like nude beige). Since starting university, folks at the Native Centre (actually where I am writing from presently) I normally hang out and help out at suggests I should mark myself as non-status aboriginal and apply for aboriginal student funding or employment or services available to non-status. *shrugs*

Yet, it is true about how many natives who do not 'look' native due to having parents and grandparents of other ancestries, and they were born and lived on a reserve. Then there are those who clearly look native, yet are not status because their grandmother or great grandmother married someone non-native which resulted in lost of status, and since continued having mainly native family for generations since. Actually what happened to a couple of my (great) great grandmothers. 

As long there is reserves and treaty land, special status for aboriginals, part of employment applications, benefits, student loans, etc for good or bad, people will continue to maintain their native or re-claim it.

Now as for the new regulation, the article is not clear about the how far back one can attest their ancestry. Status requires to be recent native familial connection to be accepted, like a grand parent who has status or had until marriage.

Oh, here is a factoid. A lot of the natives people I know and myself also have german ancestry, as seems to be a thing yay back when for german guys to fall in love and marry native women, or vice versa.
 
mellian said:
Oh, here is a factoid. A lot of the natives people I know and myself also have german ancestry, as seems to be a thing yay back when for german guys to fall in love and marry native women, or vice versa.

I don't know far back you are referring to, but something like half a million German soldiers were PoW's in the U.S.A., that's not including Canada, during WW2. There were also German subversives from Latin America interned in the US. Mostly they worked on farms, some in industry. They received a small amount of pay. Some were not returned to Germany until 1949.
 
I am of (mostly) Irish heritage.  That makes me a Celt (racially).  First, I'm going to sue the Roman Empire for pushing us out of what is now Switzerland, France and eventually into Ireland.  Next, I'll hire a really good lawyer to protect me from the natives of the British Isles (mostly extinct, if not completely) for pushing them out under Roman pressure on my ancestors.  Then I'm going to to Switzerland to lay claim to some prime real estate in Geneva or Zürich as my "sacred land".

Then I'll petition to have myself released from the psych ward.


 
mariomike said:
I don't know far back you are referring to, but something like half a million German soldiers were PoW's in the U.S.A., that's not including Canada, during WW2. There were also German subversives from Latin America interned in the US. Mostly they worked on farms, some in industry. They received a small amount of pay. Some were not returned to Germany until 1949.

Right. I was thinking more of Eastern Canada natives.
 
the 48th regulator said:
:o

Where the hell did you get this one, and where is it done?
References would be nice.

dileas

tess

I talk to a lot of people so the exact source would be chalked up to anecdotal.  The link otherwise provided indicates that the source of many European Jews was Spain.  That isn't a secret.

Here's someones blog that discusses the issue:

http://www.usefulwork.com/shark/archives/000776.html

That would have to include anybody of Spanish ancestry, including Basques (Spanish Basques, but not French Basques, I guess) and Sephardic Jews. How far down the family tree does the nearest Spanish relative have to sit in order to be considered legitimate, and who decides? According to family legend, one group of my ancestors left Spain during the Inquisition and eventually settled in Poland. All of my other ancestors are eastern European Jews. Am I Hispanic? Most people would probably say no, but I stick to my claim of "other Spanish origin", and I'm no less proud of my Spanish roots than my Lithuanian shtetl roots. So why should my Spanish heritage be any less relevant to law school admissions than that of someone whose ancestors immigrated from Spain to the new world in the 1500s?

Where would it be used?  Applying to Harvard?  Do they choose another Jew or a Hispanic?  They love diversity and the beauty is that no-one's lying, win-win.
 
From "The Killer Angels":

Well, if you mean the race, I don't really know. This is not a thing to be ashamed of. The thing is, you cannot judge a race. Any man who judges by the group is a pea-wit. You take men one at a time.
 
Dennis Ruhl said:
I talk to a lot of people so the exact source would be chalked up to anecdotal.  The link otherwise provided indicates that the source of many European Jews was Spain.  That isn't a secret.

Here's someones blog that discusses the issue:

http://www.usefulwork.com/shark/archives/000776.html

Where would it be used?  Applying to Harvard?  Do they choose another Jew or a Hispanic?  They love diversity and the beauty is that no-one's lying, win-win.


Maybe a little less talking, and a little more reading may help you....

The Ashkenazi Jews, heard of them?  I would not see where they would want to tick of "Hispanic" on some survey, when they have been in Eastern Europe since the Jews you refer too.

Oy vey, how did I get drawn into this mishigas, with this yutzi!

dileas

tess
 
Listen to Tess.  While nominally European the Jews from the Iberian peninsula were ethnically Sephardic, ie. from the Mediterranean latitudes.  They differ from the Ashkenazies not only culturally (food, music, etc. )  but religiously too as their liturgies are shorter. 
Furthermore, the Sepharidm who fled the Inquisiton tended to go to the British Isles or the New World.  There is no tradition of Sephardim in Eastern Europe which is why they wouldn't know the Ashkenazie Yiddishisms  that Tess quotes so eloquently. ;D




 
I've never understood why a person's race, gender, religion or sexuality is more important than said person's skills, knowledge and abilities to perform the job.

If you need someone to do a job, why wouldn't you hire the best QUALIFED person for the job, regardless of the race, gender, religion or sexuality?

If this was the normal hiring process (in a perfect world), situation like this would never happen.
 
RumRunner said:
If you need someone to do a job, why wouldn't you hire the best QUALIFED person for the job, regardless of the race, gender, religion or sexuality?

Employment Equity has been the law of our land since 1985:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employment_equity_%28Canada%29
"Employment equity goes beyond mere non-discrimination in requiring these specific groups be targeted for proactive treatment."
Religion and sexuality are not included in the four targeted groups.
 
the 48th regulator said:
Maybe a little less talking, and a little more reading may help you....

The Ashkenazi Jews, heard of them?  I would not see where they would want to tick of "Hispanic" on some survey, when they have been in Eastern Europe since the Jews you refer too.

It was just a anecdote pointing out the silliness of racial quotas.  It wasn't my idea.  I didn't even invent the idea that many Ashkenazi families claim some Sephardic ancestry. 

The messenger dies gracefully.
 
Dennis Ruhl said:
It was just a anecdote pointing out the silliness of racial quotas.  It wasn't my idea.  I didn't even invent the idea that many Ashkenazi families claim some Sephardic ancestry. 

The messenger dies gracefully.

Well Dennis,

Remember presenting Anecdotal evidence as fact, well, just allows a quicker death to the messenger and argument.

I shall hoist a pint at the Messengers Wake ;)

dileas

tess
 
the 48th regulator said:
Well Dennis,

Remember presenting Anecdotal evidence as fact, well, just allows a quicker death to the messenger and argument.

It wasn't even my bleeping anecdote and I sourced it.  I didn't think there was an argument.  Nothing I would care to dispute unless you believe that the Ashkenazi Jews were a population isolate with no admixture over time.  I'd argue against that.  They are the most DNA'd people in the world.

 
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