Forced Element Transfer

[McG]

As a Cook, you are a "purple trade" (same as Supply or RMS) which means that regardless of the DEU you wear may be required to serve in the Field, on Ship or on Air Force bases.

... except that we've seen that this may no longer be the case.  It seems that cooks (along with a few other MOS) may have been divided into sub-occupations based on the Functional Employment Area of "Land Ops."

There are plenty of references that discuss compulsary transfers between components or occupations.  I've found nothing on compulsary enviromental transfers and nothing on compulsary sub-occupation transfers.  However, if occupation transfer rules apply to sub-occupations then (being untrained in your MOS)  a compulsory transfer is acceptable if compulsory occupation reassignment is necessary in the interests of the Service.

 

[armyvern]

Well, here's what I've come up with specificly pertaining to purple trades.

CANFORGEN 029/02 (It has not been rescinded)

CHANGE OF DISCTINCTIVE ENVIRONMENTAL UNIFORM (DEU)
CANFORGEN 029/02 ADMHRMIL 013 031330Z APR 02
UNCLASSIFIED

REFS: A. ARMED FORCES COUNCIL (AFC) DEC 99
B. NATIONAL DEFENCE CLOTHING AND DRESS COMMITTEE (NDCDC) DEC 00
C. OPM 110-44 CAREER MANAGER GUIDANCE ENVIRONMENTAL UNIFORMS AL 2/92
D. A-AD-265-000/AG-001

THE PURPOSE OF THIS MESSAGE IS TO PROMULGATE THE REVISED POLICY FOR CHANGE OF DEU FOR REGULAR FORCE MEMBERS. THIS POLICY IS EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY AND SUPERCEDES THE (FORMER) GUIDANCE AT REF C. THIS POLICY DOES NOT APPLY TO THE RESERVE FORCE

THE CF MUST CONTINOUSLY BALANCE THE COMPOSITION OF ITS FORCE STRUCTURE WITH THE DEU DISTRIBUTION OF ITS SUPPORT MOCS. HOWEVER, IT IS RECOGNIZED THAT THERE MAY BE CIRCUMSTANCES WHEN A CHANGE OF ENVIRONMETAL UNIFORM MAY BE APPROPRIATE. THIS WAS AFFIRMED AT REFS A. AND B.

THE NEW POLICY FRAMEWORK IS AS FOLLOWS. THE POLICY APPLIES TO MEMBERS OF SUPPORT MOCS IE THOSE FOR WHICH CMS, CAS OR CLS ARE NOT THE MANAGING AUTHORITY. REQUEST FOR CHANGE OF DEU UNDER THIS POLICY IS NOT AN ENTITLEMENT. IN ORDER TO BE CONSIDERED ELIGIBLE TO SUBMIT A CHANGE OF DEU REQUEST, BASIC TRAINING MUST HAVE BEEN COMPLETED AND THE MEMBER MUST HAVE SERVED FIVE YEARS BEYOND THE SUCCESSFUL COMPLETION OF MOC TRAINING

THE MEMBER WILL INITIATE THE PROCESS BY ADDRESSING A REQUEST TO THE CO, OUTLINING THE REASONS FOR DESIRED CHANGE OF DEU. THE CO WILL ASSESS THE REQUEST. IF SUPPORTED, HIS/HER RECOMMENDATION WILL BE ADDED TO THE REQUEST AND FORWARDED TO D MIL C FOR CONSIDERATION

D MIL C IS THE AUTHORITY TO APPROVE REQUESTS FOR CHANGE OF DEU. REQUESTS WILL BE EXAMINED CONSIDERING WHETHER THE CHANGE WILL PROMOTE MORALE AND ENHANCE OPERATIONAL FOCUS, AND WHETHER APPROVAL OF THE REQUEST WOULD HELP THE CF ACHIEVE ITS DEU DISTRIBUTION TARGET FOR THE MOC IN QUESTION. THE MEMBERS CIRCUMSTANCES WILL ALSO BE CONSIDERED, INCLUDING PREFERENCE FOR ENVIRONMENTAL AFFILIATION, PAST RECORD OF EMPLOYMENT WITH THAT ELEMENT, CONTINUING EMPLOYMENT WITH ENVIRONMENT, AND CAREER PROGRESSION. UNDER THE POLICY, A MEMBER MAY BE AUTHORIZED TO CHANGE DEU ONLY ONCE DURING HIS/HER CAREER. THE FACT THAT A MEMBER HAS ENVIRONMENTAL TRAINING GAPS DOES NOT NECESSARILY MEAN THAT THEY CANNOT CHANGE DEU. THE FEASIBILITY OF HAVING THE INDIVIDUAL COMPLETE THE REQUIRED ENVIRONMENTAL TRAINING WILL BE CONSIDERED

A CHANGE OF DEU WILL NOT PREJUDICE THE SELECTION OF AN INDIVIDUAL FOR A SPECIFIC POSITION. POSTING PERSONNEL IN THE CF WILL CONTINUE TO BE BASED ON SELECTION OF THE PERSON BEST SUITED FOR THE POSITION

SCALE OF ISSUE FOR THE CHANGE OF DEU WILL BE THE SAME AS IF THE INDIVIDUAL HAD BEEN ENROLLED IN THAT DEU. ADDITIONAL CLOTHING REQUIREMENTS WILL BE THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE MEMBER

DGMC HAS OVERALL RESPONSIBILITY FOR IMPLEMENTATION OF THIS POLICY INCLUDING PUBLICATION OF APPROPRIATE ADDITIONAL INSTRUCTIONS AS REQUIRED CONCERNING THE PROCESS

DHH HAS THE RESPONSIBILITY TO AMEND REF D. AS REQUIRED

I've bolded a couple of the bits; that this pertains to purple trades who are not "owned (ie "managed")" by CAS, CLS, CMS; the "operational focus" bit as the Army is pretty much operationally focussed these days; and the "feasibility of having the member complete the required enviornmental training will be considered".

Yes, this CANFORGEN pertains to members "requesting" to change uniforms, but it makes clear that DMilC is the final authority on uniform colours and that specific "colours" are not an entitlement. It seems to me that if they are the final authority on "voluntary" changes -- they'd also be the authority able to "direct" changes in order to meet those operational goals and where they need to balance the distribution as per para 2.

And certainly, if the Army is short cooks and needs them NOW due to it's being at war, and the Naval enviornment is overstrength in cooks ... then CANFORGEN 101/08 which prevents Naval and Air uniform wearing cooks from undergoing that specific "enviornmental training" IAW this CANFORGEN so that they CAN be employed in the Army would necessitate a change of their uniform colour to green so that those overstrength cooks from other elements CAN do the Army trg and be employed IN the Army ... where they are indeed operationally required at this point in time.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

 

[zorro]

Except for those wedges.   ;D

Lol no way! They're exactly what completes the uniform!! I prefer a wedge any day to a berret.

 

[Neill McKay]

My first thought was "why is there an established ratio of elements in purple trades?", or, who cares if every cook in the CF is in the navy and every RMS clerk is in the air force?  Then I realized that might be a holdover from some sort of inter-element turf war that might have taken place during the introduction of DEU.

Then I saw this:

And certainly, if the Army is short cooks and needs them NOW due to it's being at war, and the Naval enviornment is overstrength in cooks ... then CANFORGEN 101/08 which prevents Naval and Air uniform wearing cooks from undergoing that specific "enviornmental training" IAW this CANFORGEN so that they CAN be employed in the Army would necessitate a change of their uniform colour to green so that those overstrength cooks from other elements CAN do the Army trg and be employed IN the Army ... where they are indeed operationally required at this point in time.

and remembered an earlier thread touching on the subject.

Now I'm thinking that if a lad was offered enrolment in a purple trade with the naval DEU, and now that trade is becoming somewhat less purple as outlined above, it's that much harder to require him to change his DEU.  It becomes more than the colour of shirt he wears; now it actually may affect where he works, in a significant way.  Yes, it's all subject to the requirements of the Service and the needs of the Forces must always come first, and so on, but the whole thing still comes off looking a little bit dirty.

 

[zorro]

Now I'm thinking that if a lad was offered enrolment in a purple trade with the naval DEU, and now that trade is becoming somewhat less purple as outlined above, it's that much harder to require him to change his DEU.  It becomes more than the colour of shirt he wears; now it actually may affect where he works, in a significant way.  Yes, it's all subject to the requirements of the Service and the needs of the Forces must always come first, and so on, but the whole thing still comes off looking a little bit dirty.

+1 to that.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Perhaps, with the authorization and development of physical and fitness standards falling to the lap of each environment the zero course-loading of non-army DEU "purple" trades on SQ courses and the like, and things like this, the time for unification and purple trades to go to the way-side is just around the corner and Universality of Service. 

 

[X Royal]

(btw - purple is what happens when one mixes black, green and blue)

Not sure where the phase "purple trade" came from, but mixing black, green and blue doesn't make purple. Purple is made by mixing red and blue.

 

[Greymatters]

Not sure where the phase "purple trade" came from, but mixing black, green and blue doesn't make purple. Purple is made by mixing red and blue.

Are you implying a person needs to work for both 'red' force and 'blue' force before becoming 'purple'?  ;D

 

[armyvern]

Not sure where the phase "purple trade" came from, but mixing black, green and blue doesn't make purple. Purple is made by mixing red and blue.

It is in the CF.

Mix up blue, green, and black uniforms ... and you get a purple trade out of it.

 

[Loachman]

The term is not based upon dress uniform colours, but mess dress colours.

 

[armyvern]

The term is not based upon dress uniform colours, but mess dress colours.

I so do not wear purple Mess Kit!!  >

Mine is all nice and scarlet!

 

[Grunt_031]

On my WFE QL3 we had an OT from the Navy(Stoker) and was told that our trade was going 60/40 Airforce/Army and he was to be the first Army WFE. On arrival to Gagetown was issued Army Deu's. Five weeks into the course it was determined that they were going top delay the decision and then was issued Airforce DEU's. He had all three hanging in his closet.

ArmyVern is right, Did you join for the Navy or Join to be a cook.

 

[Loachman]

I so do not wear purple Mess Kit!!  >

Mine is all nice and scarlet!

Yes, and others in your trade wear blue, and you mix them up and get...

You'd look nice in purple CADPAT, too.

 

[LuvNavy]

I appreciate all the responses. Things are starting to make sense now, although I still have no official reason why this all happened. Just an update: I am no longer an Ordinary Seamen, I am now a Private and I wear the army uniform proud. I am dissappointed, but when asked the question

Did you join for the Navy or Join to be a cook

I did join to be a cook, I just grew to love the Navy uniform.

I now have a greater respect for purple trades, I am posted to CFB Esquimalt!! Sometimes I think what was the point of switching uniforms, but I guess thats "purple" for ya!

 

[Jorkapp]

I now have a greater respect for purple trades, I am posted to CFB Esquimalt!! Sometimes I think what was the point of switching uniforms, but I guess thats "purple" for ya!

The military it seems, is not without a sense of irony.

 

[warlordnik]

Good day all,

I am currently an Army NCM with the Int Op trade who is dual qualified QL5 in both Army and Air intelligence.  I am currently posted to an Air unit but have a few years of previous experience in the combat arms.  The Int Op trade has traditionally been purple with no qualms given to what elemental uniform a member wears at whatever posting.

However, now there is talk of "streamlining" the Int trade into hard elemental roles.  I've been told that in a few months I can either choose to switch to an Air Force DEU or stick with Army and be posted to a brigade.  If given this binary choice, I will stick with the Army.  However, I get the feeling that the Air Force will try to retain as many of its experienced Int people as it can and perhaps force an element change on a member without his consent.

My question is - can a DEU change be forced on a member without his/her consent.  I've been told by some Admin O's that this cannot be done unless the following has been met:

1) The member requests the change;
2) A VOT or COT has been initiated on the member (and hence a new service contract with specified DEU);
3) A component transfer takes place (also a new contract).

Can someone please let me know if I can be forced to go blue (and perhaps point to reference docs).  I'd rather not as I take pride in my Army background and family traditions.  I've got nothing against the Air Force and can continue to work for them, but not if it means a forced DEU change.

Thanks a lot!

 

[George Wallace]

The Air Force can't, but the Branch may be able to.

You should be asking the Career Mgr or the Branch Chief these questions.

 

[warlordnik]

The Air Force can't, but the Branch may be able to.

You should be asking the Career Mgr or the Branch Chief these questions.

Thanks George, that's good advice.  I was wondering more along the lines of administrative protection for a member against such changes being forced upon him/her.  You'd think that after the member has signed a contract which lists the uniform he/she has agreed to wear, that such an important facet of the member's identity and pride cannot be whimsically stripped away.

Anybody else have any revelations or experiences in this regard?

 

[George Wallace]

There are a few on this site that have gone through the Environmental DEU change.  You should hear from them in the next few days, or so.