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Forced to pay / belong to a mess [Merged]

jollyjacktar said:
There's nothing wrong with having different opinions.  You enjoy mess society, so to speak, and that's great.  It's not for everyone and for those folks, like myself, it's a dissatifier to be forced into it.

I just can't make out the difference between that and being forced to go to the field. Or on a course that had nothing to do with anything (see cafjods)

Im dissatisfied I have to do those things on occasion.
 
Downhiller229 said:
I just can't make out the difference between that and being forced to go to the field. Or on a course that had nothing to do with anything (see cafjods)

Im dissatisfied I have to do those things on occasion.

Well, going out into the field or to sea etc is a job requirement, is it not?  That's where/how we ply our trade.  If you cannot do that, then you will find yourself moving on eventually.  I agree, it does indeed suck at times to do both.

That being said, however, the social aspect of being in/participating in a mess's social activities have nothing to do with my profession and trade.  If it did, l suppose it would have been covered in my trades training.  But it hasn't.

I also hated cleaning stations too, both as a participant or supervisor.  It is, a necessary evil onboard ship and while it can suck there's a need and it is a health benefit for me and my shipmates.

For me, being a member of a mess ashore has none of that and I'm afraid l don't see your connection either.  :dunno:

 
Many years ago, while I was still serving, I witnessed the decline of the Messes.  PSP and Canex started to get too involved in the Messes.  Gone were the cheap beers and alcohol, with the reasoning given that we had to sell in par with local civilian establishments.  Unlike the civilian establishments, which did sell cheap booze for Happy Hours, and had loud music and women; the Messes were left to die a slow death. 
I tried to get my troops to attend, at the very least, Happy Hours of Fridays.  The reasoning was for them to socialize and get to know their co-workers and let off steam before heading off to other greener pastures in the civilian night club scene.  It was also to give them a place, where they could sit with their Brothers in Arms and decompress......Something that I believe the first Mess in long ago days was meant to be, and the origins of the RCL for those who had left the military but still had 'problems' adjusting to civilian life.  The Mess is where you can sit down with people who had been through traumatic situations together and they could decompress in an environment that would permit them to do so without interference from those who have no clue what they had gone through.  The Mess is part of the 'healing process', in my view, and one that some 'tea toddlers' have ignored and figure is not required.  Perhaps, this is one of the reasons we see so many problems attributed to PTSD; the troops have no idea where and with whom to decompress after events.  Traditions are being lost, because they have not been properly explained to new members who are asking the questions "Why?".  If there is no explanation for why a tradition exists, the reason to perpetuate it will cause it to die a slow lingering death.  If our Leadership have no clue why things are done, then they are the fault in the system.

While in Gagetown, every Friday, when C Sqn came in from the Field, we filled up the Maritime Club Snake Pit and decompressed, played poke chest and joked.  We went over our problems of the week.  Explained why some things were done the way they were.  Critiqued our bosses and subordinates.  Monday, when we all went out to the Field again, we were one happy family, having gotten all the crap off our chests the Friday before.....Ready to do it all over again and improve.

 
Jarnhamar said:
I'd say this is part of the issue.

It's context too... my occupation doesn't often go to the field, I had to once as a SME on exercise. Wasn't a huge fan but part of my duties.

It's important for me to know my collègues and superiors on a personal level, which is why mess culture and being with "work people" outside normal work hours is something I'm into. I would say most my coworkers would tend to agree.

I also know that having that level of comaraderie with your peers isn't necessarily something that's as relevant in other spheres... but I feel given the obligations we have towards one another, interaction outside of normal business hours is important. The messes are there to facilitate this, and we should take advantage of the votes we have to make that environment relevant to the max. And for a few hundred dollars of mess fees I think it's a valid investment.
 
It isn't the "Mess" that makes it a good or bad/useful or useless Mess; it is the membership of the Mess who make it a good or bad Mess. 
 
Downhiller229 said:
It's context too... my occupation doesn't often go to the field, I had to once as a SME on exercise. Wasn't a huge fan but part of my duties.

It's important for me to know my collègues and superiors on a personal level, which is why mess culture and being with "work people" outside normal work hours is something I'm into. I would say most my coworkers would tend to agree.

I also know that having that level of comaraderie with your peers isn't necessarily something that's as relevant in other spheres... but I feel given the obligations we have towards one another, interaction outside of normal business hours is important. The messes are there to facilitate this, and we should take advantage of the votes we have to make that environment relevant to the max. And for a few hundred dollars of mess fees I think it's a valid investment.

What occupation are you?
 
Downhiller229 said:
It's context too... my occupation doesn't often go to the field, I had to once as a SME on exercise. Wasn't a huge fan but part of my duties.

It's important for me to know my collègues and superiors on a personal level, which is why mess culture and being with "work people" outside normal work hours is something I'm into. I would say most my coworkers would tend to agree.

I also know that having that level of comaraderie with your peers isn't necessarily something that's as relevant in other spheres... but I feel given the obligations we have towards one another, interaction outside of normal business hours is important. The messes are there to facilitate this, and we should take advantage of the votes we have to make that environment relevant to the max. And for a few hundred dollars of mess fees I think it's a valid investment.

I concur, it is good to know one's colleagues.  In my present world of Marine Engineering, it cannot be accomplished in the mess as the ranks cannot meet this way due to ranging from Jr Ranks to Wardroom.  It has always been in my experience, done off property, at some civilian establishment where we get together as a shop and bond.  Even in my former trade, the Thunderbird club was outside of the mess confines. 

So, other options 2, Mess 0.
 
jollyjacktar said:
Even in my former trade, the Thunderbird club was outside of the mess confines. 

Unless you're in Kingston and its upstairs in the JRs.
 
It still is outside of the mess system, regardless of physical location.
 
jollyjacktar said:
It still is outside of the mess system, regardless of physical location.

Are the dues mandatory in lieu of paying into the JR/Sr NCO/Officers mess?
 
Not in my day.  We still needed to be a member of our respective messes but this was where we went instead.
 
Thunderbird's are constituted as "clubs" in the same manner as the Wood Hobby Club, the Automotive Club etc.  Dues paid to the T-Bird, in locations where one exists, are over and above Mess Dues.
 
ballz said:
That right there is the sound case... it couldn't.

You seem to be looking at this through rose-coloured glasses.

Nope - if I was I wouldn't say doubt it.  I just give that 1% as it hasn't been tried and I know from experience that sometimes when tried the perceived impossible does happen.

Simian Turner said:
I think messes should all be like the ones in Greenwood, all ranks in one building with separate bars and a common one.  The costs of building maintenance, utilities, furnishing and staffing for distinct messes should ancient history.  Sell off the surplus equipment and donate the memorabilia to museums or to unit lines.  The era of the Unit Stand Easy ended with the change in society's attitude to driving impaired.  The era of distinctive messes at a Base should end when there insufficient residents and bar sales to break even.  The Base budget should not support the maintenance of buildings that are not essential to the daily business of the Base's mandate.

Try visiting some of the reserve Armouries where the entire upper level is messes as each unit needs their own for their one night of the week. Classrooms? who needs them.

recceguy said:
I seem to recall, during the '70s, we had the same discussion in Pet. I might be wrong in the location and time. The result was that, for a time, if you didn't want to pay mess dues you could give the same amount, through a pay assignment to a charity of your choice. The caveat was that you would attend Regimental gatherings, member or not. You received none of the member's perks, including Happy Hours, and payed non member entrance to any public events. I don't think it ever caught though. It was a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away.

heard of this but could never find any details.  Was a real pain too as every once in a while someone would mention there was a regulation or policy on this trying to get out of paying the dues.

Tcm621 said:
But the mess doesn't have to be a bar. It can also be a club house for members to use. You want to watch the game on the big screen? Let us know and we will open it up. We don't have to open the bar for you to use the tv. Organize a games night, kids movie night. It's your space and we can help you use it however you want (within NPF rules). Messes have to change with the times and having the mess=bar isn't feasible in todays military. Get involved with your mess comittee and help them use your dues in a way that is acceptable to you.

Well said.






 
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