France leaving Afghanistan - too dangerous

[Cloud Cover]

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Report: France plans to withdraw 200 troops from Afghanistan 
The Associated Press

Published: October 15, 2006


PARIS A French newspaper reported Sunday that France plans to withdraw 200 special forces officers from southeast Afghanistan by early next year.

The Defense Ministry refused to comment on the report in Journal de Dimanche newspaper, which cited unnamed sources "close to the military."

"The decision to withdraw the elite troops was taken at the highest level by the president of the republic and the army chiefs of staff," the report said, adding that another 1,700 French troops that are part of the NATO-led International Security Assistance Force in Afghanistan would not be affected by the decision.

Deployed in southeastern Afghanistan, the French special forces have been involved in the fight against al-Qaida and the Taliban and the search for al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden.

The newspaper suggested the worsening security situation in Afghanistan was a possible reason for the decision to pull the special troops out. Nine elite troops have been killed in combat.

Meanwhile, France recently committed 2,000 troops to a U.N. peacekeeping force in southern Lebanon, and the availability of special forces there could prove useful, the report said. France leads the expanded U.N. force that is charged with maintaining the Aug. 14 cease-fire between Lebanon-based Hezbollah militants and Israel after a 34-day-war.

PARIS A French newspaper reported Sunday that France plans to withdraw 200 special forces officers from southeast Afghanistan by early next year.

The Defense Ministry refused to comment on the report in Journal de Dimanche newspaper, which cited unnamed sources "close to the military."

"The decision to withdraw the elite troops was taken at the highest level by the president of the republic and the army chiefs of staff," the report said, adding that another 1,700 French troops that are part of the NATO-led International Security Assistance Force in Afghanistan would not be affected by the decision.

Deployed in southeastern Afghanistan, the French special forces have been involved in the fight against al-Qaida and the Taliban and the search for al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden.

The newspaper suggested the worsening security situation in Afghanistan was a possible reason for the decision to pull the special troops out. Nine elite troops have been killed in combat.

Meanwhile, France recently committed 2,000 troops to a U.N. peacekeeping force in southern Lebanon, and the availability of special forces there could prove useful, the report said. France leads the expanded U.N. force that is charged with maintaining the Aug. 14 cease-fire between Lebanon-based Hezbollah militants and Israel after a 34-day-war.

 

 

[tlg]

Pulling out special forces units but leaving in regulars. Doesn't that seem to be a bit contrary to the standard French "We surrender" strategery?

 

[North Star]

The newspaper's assessment makes no sense: if you were concerned about the security situation, you'd pull line troops out as they are more likely to be wounded/killed, and are more prone to media attention. These guys are probably going on standby for the Lebanon committment. Once again, AP trying to mould opinions rather than report facts.

 

[vonGarvin]

Question: what colour is French Blood?

Answer: red, just like ours

That newspaper is SPECULATING (read: trying to create controversy where none exists)

Next...

 

[Cloud Cover]

VG- bet you a pint in the mess that the NDP crowd uses this anyway.

 

[geo]

Well....
Australia just withdrew their 200 some SAS types

based on the total size of their committment to Afghanistan, the withdrawal of their spec forces is not a "biggie"..... or have I missed something here?

 

[GAP]

A lot of people are ignoring the commitment France made in Lebanon. If the SF are under utilized in Afghanistan and the regular forces can handle the job, move them where they are most effective.

 

[Synthos]

I think this may be (B.S. or real) a response to the rumors circulating that some french special forces were captured and gutted alive.

 

[MarkOttawa]

Maybe not:
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/10/21/america/NA_GEN_US_France_Alliot_Marie.php

Mark
Ottawa

 

[FastEddy]

Pulling out special forces units but leaving in regulars. Doesn't that seem to be a bit contrary to the standard French "We surrender" strategery?

My Goodness where would you get such a idea !, considering they have had such a Sterling Record though out History.

Cheers.

 

[geo]

Eddy....

Many nations have a similar record of "cut & run"
if we're going to hammer them, let's hammer all the nails

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

Honest Question:  Is this really any worse than the deals the Brit's have supposedly cut with insurgents in their regions both Afghanistan and Southern Iraq in order to minimize attacks or the Germans in Afghanistan who won't leave the base under any circumstances due to their government's highly restrictive ROE's?


Matthew. 

 

[ProPatria Mike]

Does anybody recall how this came about and the repercussions therein?

Perhaps a brief history lesson is in order.

France only decided to withdraw its special forces when a group of em were captured and gutted like a deer. These soldiers, BTW, were tortured and mutilated while they were very much alive and perished under extremely agonizing conditions.

It was the same operation, you may recall, when the Brit Paras were sent to help the French. As I remember, they flew the chinooks a little to close prior to deployment and the entire effort was compromised by the time the first para's boot hit the ground. You will recall it was the Canadian infantrymen who, dispatched, successfully saved em all.

Moral of the story?

Go in force, not in small, all to vulnerable groups...!

Unfortunately, the force does not exist and the consequences are not unexpected.

IMO, this is just another example of lack of commitment. At least France showed up and aggressively waged the battle....

And without that committment from the other thirty some odd countries, a serious commitment equal to ours, lets accept the reality of the situation.

Canadians are just whizzing our blood into the wind.

 

[FastEddy]

Eddy....

Many nations have a similar record of "cut & run"
if we're going to hammer them, let's hammer all the nails

Yes, that's a fact, we all might have a dark page or two, but some have written the book.

The sad thing is, its always the Line Troops that have to pay for it.

Cheers

 

[aesop081]

"France leaving Afghanistan - too dangerous"


:

"France leaving France - too gutless"

 

[Kirkhill]

Perhaps one thing is connected with the other.  It's pretty much fruitless to argue past polices.  It seems that the reality is that France is now dealing with an increasingly inimical population concentrated in self-supporting enclaves: enclaves that can quickly become fortresses.  I think all decisions should be viewed with this filter in mind.

Muslims are waging civil war against us, claims police union
By David Rennie, Europe Correspondent
(Filed: 05/10/2006)



Radical Muslims in France's housing estates are waging an undeclared "intifada" against the police, with violent clashes injuring an average of 14 officers each day.

 
Interior minister Nicolas Sarkozy was warned of an 'intifada'


As the interior ministry said that nearly 2,500 officers had been wounded this year, a police union declared that its members were "in a state of civil war" with Muslims in the most depressed "banlieue" estates which are heavily populated by unemployed youths of north African origin.

It said the situation was so grave that it had asked the government to provide police with armoured cars to protect officers in the estates, which are becoming no-go zones.

The number of attacks has risen by a third in two years. Police representatives told the newspaper Le Figaro that the "taboo" of attacking officers on patrol has been broken.

Instead, officers – especially those patrolling in pairs or small groups – faced attacks as soon as they tried to arrest locals.

Senior officers insisted that the problem was essentially criminal in nature, with crime bosses on the estates fighting back against tough tactics.

The interior minister, Nicolas Sarkozy, who is also the leading centre-Right candidate for the presidency, has sent heavily equipped units into areas with orders to regain control from drug smuggling gangs and other organised crime rings. Such aggressive raids were "disrupting the underground economy in the estates", one senior official told Le Figaro.

However, not all officers on the ground accept that essentially secular interpretation. Michel Thoomis, the secretary general of the hardline Action Police trade union, has written to Mr Sarkozy warning of an "intifada" on the estates and demanding that officers be given armoured cars in the most dangerous areas.

He said yesterday: "We are in a state of civil war, orchestrated by radical Islamists. This is not a question of urban violence any more, it is an intifada, with stones and Molotov cocktails. You no longer see two or three youths confronting police, you see whole tower blocks emptying into the streets to set their 'comrades' free when they are arrested."

He added: "We need armoured vehicles and water cannon. They are the only things that can disperse crowds of hundreds of people who are trying to kill police and burn their vehicles."

However, Gerard Demarcq, of the largest police unions, Alliance, dismissed talk of an "intifada" as representing the views of only a minority.

Mr Demarcq said that the increased attacks on officers were proof that the policy of "retaking territory" from criminal gangs was working.

Mayors in the worst affected suburbs, which saw weeks of riots and car-burning a year ago, have expressed fears of a vicious circle, as attacks by locals lead the police to harden their tactics, further increasing resentment.

As if to prove that point, there were angry reactions in the western Paris suburb of Les Mureaux following dawn raids in search of youths who attacked a police unit on Sunday. The raids led to one arrest. They followed clashes on Sunday night when scores of youths attacked seven officers who had tried to arrest a man for not wearing his seat belt while driving. That driver refused to stop, and later rammed a police car trying to block his path.

The mayor of Les Mureaux, Francois Garay, criticised aggressive police tactics that afterwards left "the people on the ground to pick up the pieces".

david.rennie@telegraph.co.uk

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/10/05/wmuslims05.xml

Further, with respect to the French Special Forces - do you think they might have lost a little "professional detachment" as a result of the treatment visited on their comrades?  It wouldn't be the first time that something of the sort happened.  As I have noted elsewhere the Brits in Palestine lost control of their troops for a day or two after a couple of soldiers were lynched.

 

[ProPatria Mike]

Theres an old Kipling poem about Brit soldiers being shot on the Afghan battlefied of yesteryear taking their own lives before the Afghan women showed up to carve them to pieces.

Slowly.

Let me ask you.

If they captured four Candian soldeirs and horrifically mutilated them, while still alive, what do you think the impact would be here, in Canada.

And there, in Afghanistan, when the bodies were recovered?

 

[GAP]

Theres an old Kipling poem about Brit soldiers being shot on the Afghan battlefied of yesteryear taking their own lives before the Afghan women showed up to carve them to pieces.

Slowly.

Let me ask you.

If they captured four Candian soldeirs and horrifically mutilated them, while still alive, what do you think the impact would be here, in Canada.

Ahd there, in Afghanistan, when the bodies were recovered?

I think you are trying to create controversy where none presently exists. We have enough trolls on these boards without getting into a controversial subject like that and all the comments it will illicit, only to be picked up and used by people who will take the comments totally out of context.

 

[ProPatria Mike]

What controversy?

I asked a simple question.

Considering the anti-war sentiment in this country, I would think its a logical question. Not trolling or attempting to stir up controversy, like, WTH is that?

Were Canadians confronted with the same horror, would we act any different?

 

[geo]

"France leaving Afghanistan - too dangerous"
:
"France leaving France - too gutless"

Please back up your comment - or retract............