Fraternization in CF
- Thread starter munky99999
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Back in Canuckistan, I used to date (and later shacked up with) a girl from the same unit, and we kept things discrete as possible when working, its not that difficult.
Ya, like all guys, I was a frat rat to a degree, you know, summer flings at Dundurn, same rank stuff, in the mess out to Saskatoon for a dirty wknd stuff, but around in uniform, etc, we always kept our distance. We feared the worst of course, maybe an RTU and the embarrassment that would cause not only to you, but your unit.
Seen lots of both discrete frat, and in your face stuff over the years, more so in the CF than here, but I dated a UCC/PTI here in Aussie back just after I was separated from Ex wife No1 (hey there is only one Ex wife). We went out for 2 yrs, and we kept that quiet and low level, although it was common knowledge. It did cause some problems for her, as she was, yes, hot and blonde, and would cop it from her peers and others (about 'her lumberjack' :
), which she hated. I told her if she was fat and ugly, she wouldn'y get all the attention.
Whats this thing with blondes anyways?
On a more serious note, you just gotta be professional about it. Was I? Well, most of the time anyways.
Cheers,
Wes
Ya, like all guys, I was a frat rat to a degree, you know, summer flings at Dundurn, same rank stuff, in the mess out to Saskatoon for a dirty wknd stuff, but around in uniform, etc, we always kept our distance. We feared the worst of course, maybe an RTU and the embarrassment that would cause not only to you, but your unit.
Seen lots of both discrete frat, and in your face stuff over the years, more so in the CF than here, but I dated a UCC/PTI here in Aussie back just after I was separated from Ex wife No1 (hey there is only one Ex wife). We went out for 2 yrs, and we kept that quiet and low level, although it was common knowledge. It did cause some problems for her, as she was, yes, hot and blonde, and would cop it from her peers and others (about 'her lumberjack' :
), which she hated. I told her if she was fat and ugly, she wouldn'y get all the attention.Whats this thing with blondes anyways?
On a more serious note, you just gotta be professional about it. Was I? Well, most of the time anyways.
Cheers,
Wes
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Hot Lips said:
Same kind of forms are required to be signed regarding drug use and harassment. And we know how well the forms prevent that stuff from happening. :
But true enough HL, what it gives is the offender no argument afterwards, although they try mighty hard.
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Also, ignorance of a law is no excuse, so any "signing" of documents is extraneous, in my opinion. This from a guy who did extras a long long time ago because I was supposed to be on duty. The Routine Orders had been issued, but not posted. "Not good enough" said the DSM du jour.navymich said:Same kind of forms are required to be signed regarding drug use and harassment. And we know how well the forms prevent that stuff from happening. :
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Hot Lips said:
Nope not at all,although its sometimes frowned upon.My wife was working in Ottawa as a cpl and me in petawawa and there were no probelms.However its usually frowned upon because it causes a lot of probelms involving postings,tours etc in SOME CASES.I have friends who married in the unit,infact in the same squadron with little to no problem.Discretion is key.Dating officers can be interesting as a ncm also...almost like high school where if daddy finds out..... ;D
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17thRecceSgt
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Cornwallis, 12 Platoon, Course 8930, one of our MCpl's was married to a Lt (N). She picked him up at work sometimes (our H Hut) . We knew about it, they were professional about it. The way they acted around the H Hut, they could have been brother and sister. I think it was a good example at the time.
Where I work now, we have a Reg Frce Capt, married to a Reg Frce Cpl. He is posted to CFB Halifax, her to our Bde HQ. I can think of numerous other examples, and personally, over 17 years, I have never known a "couple" that was stupid about it. The Frat policy is pretty straight forward AND common sense applies.
The trouble begins when people forget to be smart about being stupid.
Where I work now, we have a Reg Frce Capt, married to a Reg Frce Cpl. He is posted to CFB Halifax, her to our Bde HQ. I can think of numerous other examples, and personally, over 17 years, I have never known a "couple" that was stupid about it. The Frat policy is pretty straight forward AND common sense applies.
The trouble begins when people forget to be smart about being stupid.
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Mud Recce Man said:
That's the key. Use common sense and remain professional.
We have a few new Ptes around this Base who are joining later in life. Quite a few are married to Officers and have kids my age, so they were obviously married to Officers before they joined the CF ranks. I'm good with that as long as it's kept professional at work.
The times are a changing and there is not necessarily anything wrong with that. After all, would it be right to deny someone who is recommended by the CoC for Comissioning From the Ranks because they have done well and displayed those characteristics deemed "officer-like" their comission because they happened to be married to a Pte or a Sgt? If so what do we do when we have 2 married MCpls and one is being promoted to Sgt? Perhaps deny the new Sgt entry into the Snr NCOs Mess, after all it is the only Mess that you have to 'earn' your way into? That doesn't make any sense.
If they remain professional and use common sense at work and in uniform then they won't have a problem.
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Ah'm agin' it, dagnabbit!
If the Army wanted you to have a spouse it would have been issued to you! All that mushy stuff just makes you weak! WEAK! Gotta stay hard. In fact, I'm gonna go find me a puppy to kick, and steal some kid's ice cream right now!
If the Army wanted you to have a spouse it would have been issued to you! All that mushy stuff just makes you weak! WEAK! Gotta stay hard. In fact, I'm gonna go find me a puppy to kick, and steal some kid's ice cream right now!
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single and "available". Particularly to old, chubby, married broken paratroopers.Hot Lips said:
And this thread is officially off the rails!
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Hot Lips said:
See quote by 2023 earlier.
The problem gets bad when there is perceived or actual intervention by someone on behalf of their partner by throwing their rank around. That`s why I have a problem with people in the same chain of command or someone who directly has the bosses´ear or ears starting a relationship with a junior rank. The frat rules are there to keep morale from going to the rats´ backsides because of the aforementioned. Also, when it comes time to say "Rifleman number 2, take that trench", there is no room for thinking "Hey, my dude/ette is likely going to get killed" or "Hey - tell someone else to do it" based on the booty principle from occuring and the job gets done. I`ve seen units pretty become quite divided, and not just at the junior rank levels either - it goes all the way up because the young uns are complaining to us, we complain up and often little or nothing gets done about it.
HL - you don`t need to remain single but use the common sense Nature gave you. The big thing is discretion - something your used to anyway due to your job. As soon as things are flaunted - things go downhill. Hey, if you have a bad day, what happens if you take it out on eachother at work - could result in charges for either of you if there is a rank discrepancy.
MM
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Just spent a week with a buddy who is on exchange with the USN. They are really brutal about this stuff. If they sniff it going on there are heavy penalties. He, a Chaplain, got in trouble because him and his wife took in a gal whose husband was violent and she had no where to go...there's a long story to it...but the Chief and LCdr who were her bosses had the Chaplain charged for fraternization.
He argued that a) he was a Chaplain doing what any clergy would do...having compassion...and b) this was not a "love-interest" but a Mother/Father..daughter type thing....they didn't persue it but only because he was a Canadian and they couldn't understand how to get him charged.
I think we have a much more reasoned approach than they do.....most of the relationships I've seen haven't carried into the workplace and if they do they are sorted pretty quickly.
He argued that a) he was a Chaplain doing what any clergy would do...having compassion...and b) this was not a "love-interest" but a Mother/Father..daughter type thing....they didn't persue it but only because he was a Canadian and they couldn't understand how to get him charged.
I think we have a much more reasoned approach than they do.....most of the relationships I've seen haven't carried into the workplace and if they do they are sorted pretty quickly.
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They take things a step farther in the US with some things - low to zero tolerance of something that even resembles frat if there is a rank discrepancy - here we have a CFAO/DAOD, there it's an article in the UCMJ. I also seem to recall reading of some fecal cephalics that were charged with adultery under the UCMJ as well and did time in Leavenworth for it - they were having liaisons with other sailors' wives while they were at sea and taping them. Here, last time I saw someone that caused a guy to come home from tour because he got the dude's wife at a weak moment after lying to her, they left the culprit in the Battalion and shipped dude home to the same company. Poetic justice/karma at it's best...
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Thank you - one of my famous delayed onset insults.
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