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MAJOR_Baker
Guest
I thought everyone had the right to express an opinion no matter if it disagreed with the Government?
Freedom Of expression
Freedom Of expression
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fusilier955
Guest
I think that the point the judge was trying to make was not an attack on freedom of speach. He does have the right of free speach when he is not a teacher. It is the same as you voicing opinions on Mr. Bush while in uniform. Both are distastful and unprofessional, you have the right criticize what ever you would like, just not while you are at work. This is more so important because his work, (as does ours) holds a lot of influence, because it is a position of authority. With that it is easy to make an impression on youth, they tend to adopt notions about the world around them from these types of figures.
An exellent example of this would be evolution vs. the creation theory. A teacher is not allowed to voice which they believe in, so as not to let the students form a decision upon that. What they let them do is form it on evidence presented. Opinions are personal, not openly public, there are fourms in which you could make your opinions public if you wish, such as: Written arguments, intellectual debates. Basically somewhere that the argument would not be onesided.
Also one of the students could be secretly homosexual, that student would have quite a belittling experience to sit through that class. Who really has the right to say that your beliefs are wrong? It is just merely the place that you state them at that could be wrong. If voiced through the proper channels, you have freedom to criticize contraversial subjects.
An exellent example of this would be evolution vs. the creation theory. A teacher is not allowed to voice which they believe in, so as not to let the students form a decision upon that. What they let them do is form it on evidence presented. Opinions are personal, not openly public, there are fourms in which you could make your opinions public if you wish, such as: Written arguments, intellectual debates. Basically somewhere that the argument would not be onesided.
Also one of the students could be secretly homosexual, that student would have quite a belittling experience to sit through that class. Who really has the right to say that your beliefs are wrong? It is just merely the place that you state them at that could be wrong. If voiced through the proper channels, you have freedom to criticize contraversial subjects.
- Reaction score
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" I refuse to be a false teacher saying that promiscuity is acceptable, perversion is normal, and immorality is simply ‘cultural diversity‘ of which we should be proud."
This quote/belief is something I can support and agree with. But I would rather generalize it more and include it to mean society in general, both hetero and gays/lesbians.
As for the anti-gay slant on it I am a bit of a fence sitter with this topic. I don‘t approve of this lifestyle and will include this in the raising of my family but will also emphasize tolerance and mercy.
Your point was whether the teacher should be protected under Charter of Rights and Freedoms? Maybe he should have let this responsability rest with parents vice him. This is my thought.
Slainte,
This quote/belief is something I can support and agree with. But I would rather generalize it more and include it to mean society in general, both hetero and gays/lesbians.
As for the anti-gay slant on it I am a bit of a fence sitter with this topic. I don‘t approve of this lifestyle and will include this in the raising of my family but will also emphasize tolerance and mercy.
Your point was whether the teacher should be protected under Charter of Rights and Freedoms? Maybe he should have let this responsability rest with parents vice him. This is my thought.
Slainte,
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nbk
Guest
The charter was designed in part, to help curb discrimination. Saying that your not being allowed to be homophobic is descrimination aginst your religion is just stupid.
This guy is a teacher. His job is to teach kids. He should not be preaching his hate filled rhetoric in a public school, to kids who may take his sillyness as factual information.
If his comments were based on race or gender it would not even be an issue as to his wrongness...so how is sexuality any different?
This guy is a teacher. His job is to teach kids. He should not be preaching his hate filled rhetoric in a public school, to kids who may take his sillyness as factual information.
If his comments were based on race or gender it would not even be an issue as to his wrongness...so how is sexuality any different?
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If I read that right he was‘nt teaching it in his class but just wrote editorial letters to a newspaper, so where is your arguement nbk and Fusilier? He was‘nt working or teaching but just writing his thoughts to a newspaper. If they don‘t affect his judgement at work than whats the problem? You can‘t possibly believe that people suspend all their beliefs when they reach a position of authority, they just can‘t let them get in the way of professional decisions. CHEERS
J
jrhume
Guest
Bruce,
That‘s the part that threw me as well. How can anything you write in a letter to the editor not be protected by the right of free speech?
Jim
That‘s the part that threw me as well. How can anything you write in a letter to the editor not be protected by the right of free speech?
Jim
S_Baker, has the United States become so peaceful and just that it has become necessary to travel abroad to find questionable moral/political issues of the day? If you are particularly interested in the gay rights issue, perhaps you could offer your thoughs on the recent ruling in Ohio to BAN gay marriage, and your president‘s whole hearted endorsement of this bigotry? The teacher in "your" story is under investigation for abusing HIS authority; Bush isn‘t, last I heard.
http://www.forbes.com/markets/newswire/2004/02/06/rtr1250030.html
Oh look, US servicewomen are being raped by US soldiers in Iraq.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4197223/
Who knew such issues could be found right in your own backyard?
http://www.forbes.com/markets/newswire/2004/02/06/rtr1250030.html
Oh look, US servicewomen are being raped by US soldiers in Iraq.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4197223/
Who knew such issues could be found right in your own backyard?
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Seeing that this is board is Canadian, is there any problem with a someone pointing to Canadian issues for once instead of arguing about our neighbours backyard. I find it odd that you guys are so eager to jump on the freedom of expression bandwagon for flaming homosexuals and ignorant protestors but find it convienant to ignore suppression of views not in line with your own.
Well, with over a million people in uniform, you can‘t ensure everybody is perfect. We had this problem in Canada too, thanks to MacLeans.
No problems when pointing out Canadian issues. Is it okay if I point out American ones? I was simply pointing out to him that if he is particularly interested in the gay rights issue, or freedom of expression, or "freedom" itself for that matter, a fascinating precedent was just made in Ohio.
Well, ok, that‘s not exactly what i was doing, but i think you know that already.
as for the gay rights issue...yeah, i find it hard when a country so up on personal freedoms passes laws which deny them to its citizens, then implies it is the centre of freedom and justice and all that crap. sometimes, you know you‘re right.
i‘m going to go leave before you pepper me full of holes, again.
Well, ok, that‘s not exactly what i was doing, but i think you know that already.
as for the gay rights issue...yeah, i find it hard when a country so up on personal freedoms passes laws which deny them to its citizens, then implies it is the centre of freedom and justice and all that crap. sometimes, you know you‘re right.
i‘m going to go leave before you pepper me full of holes, again.
J
jrhume
Guest
Major, you‘ve got to let some of this stuff slide.
Mr. Null is knee-jerk anti-American in his views and appears impervious to reasoned argument, whether by his fellow Canadians or an American.
I find it instructive that he consistently responds to questions about problems in Canada by jabbing back with a diatribe about similar problems in America.
None of the problems we kick around on this forum lend themselves to simple answers. I am not anti-gay, although I question the lifestyles of some gays, just as I deplore the life choices of a good many more straight people. Yet, the issue of gay marriage and its implications for society are not simple and will require a good deal of public hue and cry before progress is made.
Whether those pointing fingers are even aware that such discourse is the surest sign of health in our two countries is open to question.
My query still stands: How could the judge in this case not find the teacher‘s letters to an editor to be protected by free speech?
Jim
Mr. Null is knee-jerk anti-American in his views and appears impervious to reasoned argument, whether by his fellow Canadians or an American.
I find it instructive that he consistently responds to questions about problems in Canada by jabbing back with a diatribe about similar problems in America.
None of the problems we kick around on this forum lend themselves to simple answers. I am not anti-gay, although I question the lifestyles of some gays, just as I deplore the life choices of a good many more straight people. Yet, the issue of gay marriage and its implications for society are not simple and will require a good deal of public hue and cry before progress is made.
Whether those pointing fingers are even aware that such discourse is the surest sign of health in our two countries is open to question.
My query still stands: How could the judge in this case not find the teacher‘s letters to an editor to be protected by free speech?
Jim
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The case has yet to go through appeals, or even to the federal court and then the federal court of appeals.
The teacher could appeal it all the way if he wanted I assume, alot of decisions get overturned in appeals court.
As for the judge, perhaps he let a little bias sneak in, judges aren‘t perfect either; hence the appeals courts etc.
The teacher could appeal it all the way if he wanted I assume, alot of decisions get overturned in appeals court.
As for the judge, perhaps he let a little bias sneak in, judges aren‘t perfect either; hence the appeals courts etc.
xFusilier
Full Member
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This wasn‘t a matter of free speech. The matter at hand was wether or not his professional association had the right to censure him for a public violation of their code of ethics. Most professional associations require that you agree, on enrollment to abide by their code of ethics. The judge held that if he was to use his public standing as a teacher to make a point, the College of Teachers had a right to censure. Had he not used his status as a teacher to make this statement, most likely his speech would be considered protected under the Charter.
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Just wondering if this man was gay and writing letters[on his own time] that it is the only appropriate life-style would all you lefties still think he should be censured? I think all of you would be jumping to this mans defence of free speech. The problem today is that P.C. is only a one way street.
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jrhume
Guest
Xfusilier,
Thanks. None of the reports I read made it clear that the issue involved his association. I still think it‘s a free speech issue, but that does muddy the waters.
Jim
Thanks. None of the reports I read made it clear that the issue involved his association. I still think it‘s a free speech issue, but that does muddy the waters.
Jim
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nbk
Guest
The fact that he is a teacher that posesses these types of views is what is wrong. People like this should be weeded out of the application process of becoming a teacher. Or anybody who has any influence on anyone for that matter.
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nbk, WHAT!!! SO ONLY PEOPLE WHO SHARE YOUR VIEW OF THE WORLD SHOULD HOLD ANY POSITION. Just a wee bit full of yourself, ain‘t we? What you don‘t get here is that I disagree with his message but he has the right to say it, however I also have the right to debunk him if I so choose. In your view of things people who disagree with YOU lose those rights.??????? 
N
nbk
Guest
Yeah basically.
Arguing with me will only end up frustrating yourself.
