French Language Training

[TangoTwoBravo]

Matthew,

You asked about St-Jean and were given you a link.  You were also offered some friendly advice about taking your training one step at a time.  You can choose to take or leave that advice, but I think that it is rather sound regardless of rank or occupation.  The Army has already thought out the big things of your training progression.  The rest is gravy.  As for dismissing people whose experience is from twenty five years ago I would be careful.  Things have changed alot, but the basic fundamentals aren't all that different in my view.  One of the strengths of this site is access to people with a wide range of experience.  

Cheers,

Mods,

Please don't think I'm trying to mow your lawn, and please delete if you see fit.

 

[MattyH]

OK I am going to take a break from the site. I realize I am coming off as an ass but that is not my intention. I was trying to get information and got pissy and for that I apologize.

I have been given some misguided information from people who probably meant well but didn't know what was going on and it has been rather frustrating, to say the least. I find it difficult to find solid advice on the net from those who have gone the officer route and that is probably because they are making changes all the time. So for those who are/were offended, I apologize as it wasn't my intention to put anyone down.

So I will take a break, read along and keep my mouth shut for a while and once again, if anyone is offended by me, I apologize because that really was not my intention.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Thanks for that MH. I think this can safely be put to bed at this point, with no further comment.

 

[muskrat89]

Now that is a nice change. Thanks for that.

 

[xmarcx]

Airmich, those who have just gone through the training process (SLT) would know as would anyone who has recently completed BOTC/IAP and SLT. We're not talking about something that is far out there in obscurity.

I recently completed BOTC/IAP and am about half way through SLT.

There is a gym of course, it's ok, nothing special, kind of busy, but good equipment. After class you can usually use the big gym if you want to do some crossfit type activities. There are a few classes like CQB you can take. You will have plenty of time to work out, don't worry. Or become fat, either or, people here like that option too

I realize the mods have already...tended...to this matter but I'd like to say something to my future peer;  granted I've been in the army since coffee break but I'm on the other side of the river you're about to attempt to cross, so let me offer you this piece of advice: calm down, close your mouth, open your ears, and lose the attitude. The new IAP/BOTP course is running around a 50% fail rate and walking around like king **** of **** mountain, especially when someone tries to offer some useful piece of information, is going to send you on a scenic tour of a PRB, PAT platoon, and a long bus ride back to civvie street. Relax, and get used to always being wrong, even the rare time when you're right - it will really help you out in the months to come.

 

[PaulD]

I recently completed BOTC/IAP and am about half way through SLT.

.... There are a few classes like CQB you can take. You will have plenty of time to work out, don't worry. Or become fat, either or, people here like that option too

It's actually called CQC (Close Quarters Combat).  Hand-to-hand stuff.  Don't want people to think we're playing with M4's, breaching charges, and flashbangs you know.

 

[MattyH]

It's actually called CQC (Close Quarters Combat).  Hand-to-hand stuff.   Don't want people to think we're playing with M4's, breaching charges, and flashbangs you know.

Is that a separate athletic club or is it tied to training? I started thinking of UFC or MMA when you explained the acronym.

 

[shorinsakka]

This is a huge opportunity for me to get my French language training back to up to snuff... I previously had a C in written, an exemption for reading, and a B for spoken... so in seven months I can surely get at least C's if not exemptions for everything.  Thanks to the Canadian tax payer, and a bit of work, I shall soon by fluently bilingual! 

To everyone who is starting from scratch... you can do amazing things in 7 months.  I studied Japanese, a much harder language than French, and in only 3 months of full time study I could hold a basic conversation, and after 6 months discuss a variety of topics with a reasonable level of fluency.  You should be nice and comfortable in French after 7 months, but you WILL have to study and put in the effort if you want to get there.  Being in Quebec, you will have loads of chances to practice... and practice you should.  Just remember you can't learn much by osmosis!

 

[klee519]

what about this French language course? Every regular officer must pass that course for futher promotion?

 

[Disenchantedsailor]

its mostly MOC specific but and someone correct me if I'm wrong but it is only a requirement for promotion to Maj.

 

[Wookilar]

Not anymore. Well, not technically at least. How the individual Managing Authorities work it remains to be seen. With the new Official Languages act that the Minister and CDS wrangled for us last fall, SL capability is solely linked to position, not rank. It is most closely linked to MOC/MOS-ID, but at a certain level (higher command level) most, if not all, trades require a functional bilingual level.

DEO, SC, CFR, and Civy U ROTP/UTPNCM no longer get automatic SLT as part of their "intial" training. SLT will remain one of the essential "pillars" of RMC.

I've got the link around here somewhere, maybe at work. I'll post it if anyone is interested (and I can find it again). Let me know.

Wook

 

[Disenchantedsailor]

Wook, as for DEO/CEOTP types that will not go through RMC how does the policy stand (and before the backlashes start keep in mind I'm on lve with no din access)

 

[xmarcx]

DEO, SC, CFR, and Civy U ROTP/UTPNCM no longer get automatic SLT as part of their "intial" training.

They told us the same thing, and that is exactly what the official policy says...and yet...we are still here  :

Rumour mill has it that there are only one or two more classes to come through on the full program. The only thing that can be confirmed is that contracts are not being renewed and the staff appears to be downsizing.

 

[armyvern]

They told us the same thing, and that is exactly what the official policy says...and yet...we are still here  :

Rumour mill has it that there are only one or two more classes to come through on the full program. The only thing that can be confirmed is that contracts are not being renewed and the staff appears to be downsizing.

I would think though that as you were already in the trg system when the policy changed, the loading messages for you that are still there had already been forecasted, cut, and contracted for.

I don't think the intention of the policy change was to cancel courses that were already slated for and contracted; that would have been silly to do. Why take you off when they'd have to pay the contractor anyway regardless of whether he had any students?

 

[xmarcx]

I don't think the intention of the policy change was to cancel courses that were already slated for and contracted; that would have been silly to do. Why take you off when they'd have to pay the contractor anyway regardless of whether he had any students?

The policy actually changed before my course had even started their IAP. The previous course had been told that they were the last of the full 33 week program that was going to go through the school, so up until the last week of our BOTP we expected to go off to trade training. Your logic is of course correct though, and frankly though many elements of our existence here are a bit of a bag drag, as long as the army is paying for the school to operate we might as well be here learning instead of sitting on holding platoons waiting months for courses.

At least it has been a perfect introduction to military planning for us young officers; a good example of how far down the line you have to plan for and how long you have to wait for all your dominos to fall down.

 

[ThainC]

Just graduated IAP/BOTP on Thursday (Yay to me) and will not be going on SLT.  I don't think many other people will be either.  Those that were going: Pilots, Social Workers (And the likes) and another trade I can't seem to remember.  Why were pilots going? They told us it was simply numbers... TOO many pilots to place all at once, so they tossed them all on SLT and will post them as they trickle out of there.

So that's what I know, hope it helps.

 

[GAP]

Language watchdog to audit Forces training
The Ottawa Citizen Published: Friday, July 04, 2008
Article Link

Canada's official languages watchdog is about to launch an audit of the Canadian Forces' training procedures after fielding complaints by francophones who failed to get training in their own language. The complaints date back to last year's scathing report by the military ombudsman at the time, Yves Côté, who described as "deeply deplorable" the treatment of francophone cadets at Ontario's CFB Borden. About 1,500 francophone cadets go through what is one of Canada's main training bases every year, but many reported serious difficulties in getting training and services, such as health care, in their own language. The Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages says it also has received complaints. Spokesman Robin Cantin said, "Instead of treating this one complaint at a time, we want to make an inventory of what's available within the Canadian Forces to see if there's a structural problem and we have the full co-operation of the Forces." Today, a call for tender ends to pick the person to lead the audit.
More on link

 

[George Wallace]

Will Yves Cote also investigate the availability of services in training and outside of training, for members of the CF, and their families, such as health care, in their own language for Anglophone CF members in Valcatier, Bagotville, St Jean, Farnham, Montreal, etc.?

 

[danchapps]

Doubtful. I know when I was at clothing in Borden we had a few times where there was nobody that could serve the French customers to the full availability. Part of it was that they had sent the bilingual Sup Tech to KAF for a short time. I felt bad that I couldn't serve them, and it made me want to get the second language training myself, to better serve.

 

[Wingman]

I actually pray that I never get posted to St. Jean again and if I would be forced back there .. I will release.  It was a bad experience for myself and horrific experience for my family.  They were treated with complete and sometimes hostile disrespect although they tried their best to speak French.  Being fairly competent in French, I could easily get around St. Jean but noted that many locals would become argumentative if they found out I was not of the pure laine or de souche; I was actually refused service on more than one occasion because I was "Anglo-military".

In a country of quotas, I guess this can be expected.  I wonder if Newfoundlanders could ask for the same since they make up 10% of the CF