FWSAR (CC130H, Buffalo, C27J, V22): Status & Possibilities

[armrdsoul77]

At least it's better than TCR...

What's that?

 

[dimsum]

At least it's better than TCR...

 

[OldSolduer]

What's that?

Yean crayon eaters are inquisitive too.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

TCR= Tactical Control Radar.

 

[Good2Golf]

FTFY
But you are right, that attitude likley played a part in the selection. As I said before, I believe we selected the right company, but the wrong aircraft.

Tx CP, yeah, autocorrect tried to correct Alenia’s dumb-ass move…

 

[Zoomie]

Fundamentally the problem is that people think the FWSAR replacement was supposed to replace the Buff. It wasn't. There was only one region of the country that used the Buff. The rest of the country used the Herc. And the Kingfisher is terrible compared to the Herc across multiple dimensions from payload-range at cruise to cabin height and space to separation aerodynamics for the human payloads they have to deliver.

To be accurate - the Buffalo was providing SAR across all of Canada long before we used the Herc. The Buff school was in Trenton. Summerside had Buffs.

The Herc is a great dump truck. It’s not a great SAR machine.

Cabin height is a misnomer as the -295 enjoys the same cabin height as the -149. Somehow the Corm still is effective for STs.

My comments remain - anyone truly involved in the actual flying of the plane and conducting the OT&E have expressed positive thoughts about the future of FWSAR.

 

[ytz]

To be accurate - the Buffalo was providing SAR across all of Canada long before we used the Herc. The Buff school was in Trenton. Summerside had Buffs.

We're talking about a situation that is further away than many of today's crewmembers have been on the planet. And with changes in geographic posture come different requirements for distance, speed and endurance.

The Herc is a great dump truck. It’s not a great SAR machine.

When we we're working on the specs we had two planting scenarios driving a lot of our math:

1) Departure from Winnipeg to the pole.

2) Departure from Greenwood to 30° W.

Arriving on site at the absolute edge of the AOR with the payload and endurance to execute a search, drop payload and/or techs, provide top cover for reasonable period of time (possibly intervals by going off-station to refuel). These were our driving concerns. You know what aircraft can do that today? The H-model.

Sure the Herc is a dump truck. But that has a certain value in this scenario. The Kingfisher will always be tight at the edge of the AOR in comparison to a Herc. But for the majority of cases (which aren't that far from an MOB), it's perfectly fine. I'll concede that.

Cabin height is a misnomer as the -295 enjoys the same cabin height as the -149. Somehow the Corm still is effective for STs.

We had taller techs try The cabin with helmets and NVGs on. They were bumping up at the ceiling. And found it awkward to work around the SAR bundle. But demanding 98th percentile male as mandatory basically reduced the competition to the Herc and Spartan so the team relented and reduced that to 95th percentile male. Is this a huge problem? As you note, it's the same height as the 149. I would suggest this is not ideal.

My comments remain - anyone truly involved in the actual flying of the plane and conducting the OT&E have expressed positive thoughts about the future of FWSAR.

I think for me, I know all the tradeoffs and compromises made in that time period. We fought really hard to get something better. And going through that process we know how much better the alternatives were. So it's going to be hard to forget that. The Maj pilot we had on the team, really didn't like the process. He quit towards the end of writing the high level requirements and went to Transport Canada. Didn't want to his name on this.

I'm glad crews are okay with it now. That honestly does offer some comfort. But I'll always think of what could have been.