G8/G20 June 2010 Protest Watch

[vonGarvin]

"Lack of resources and lack of consensus. A long with the overriding goal of achieving some degree of solidarity among the multiple groups and focus on general goal. Then there is also fear (violent few, violence in general, police, etc) and distrust."

Why fear the police?  I mean, given the history of these events, were I to protest, I would avoid all those fanatics with some spectacular, peaceful, non-intrusive event.  Like a concert with a big name.  Or topless women.  (Sex sells: seriously).  "Shirts off our backs, that's what (insert greedy corporation here) takes."  Let the rock throwers look like the jackasses that they are.

 

[aesop081]

As a organizer or/and marshal of the protest, as in one of the protesters and part of one the groups running/organizing/ whatever the protest?

That stuff is little league level organization. Have you ever organized 200 people putting up 3 bridges simultaneously at 3 different sites ?

Anyways, from all your previous posts, protests are largely unorganized mobs where the "leaders" have very little control so your organizational skills cant be that good.

And to do so in the middle of a protest risk discrediting myself, removing any remote control or influence as marshal or one of the organizers.

So your excuse for not doing the right thing is that it might bring some protester heat on you ? If you had any credibility before, it is surely gone now. There's no excuse for not doing the right thing.

 

[mellian]

That stuff is little league level organization. Have you ever organized 200 people putting up 3 bridges simultaneously at 3 different sites ?

Little league? Just entire different leagues entirely with different set of factors and goals. 

Anyways, from all your previous posts, protests are largely unorganized mobs where the "leaders" have very little control so your organizational skills cant be that good.

Oranges and Apples. Protests is not a military unit of paid and trained soldiers that have discipline and structure with access to better resources, or even a company or government or police or a concert/game/event/conference.

So your excuse for not doing the right thing is that it might bring some protester heat on you ? If you had any credibility before, it is surely gone now. There's no excuse for not doing the right thing.

No, I am saying I was more effective and right working with others to do what we can to keep a protest peaceful and non-violent than try to be some kind of vigilante or spy/observer for the police who would just end up telling me to go home or possibly arrest me for interference.

Whatever the case, not even involved anymore.

 

[mellian]

Why fear the police? 

Not everyone trust them, especially when they are there in riot gear and armed with batons, tear gas, and guns. I do not fear the police, but I know how riled up they can be themselves during such intense events making it wiser to avoid them.

I mean, given the history of these events, were I to protest, I would avoid all those fanatics with some spectacular, peaceful, non-intrusive event.  Like a concert with a big name.  Or topless women.  (Sex sells: seriously).  "Shirts off our backs, that's what (insert greedy corporation here) takes."  Let the rock throwers look like the jackasses that they are.

Bit hard when the rock throwers follow and join the larger peaceful and non-violence protest around.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Has it ever occurred to you that if people didn't riot, the security forces would be overjoyed not to be geared up?  It's not the most comfortable or flattering ensemble, you know.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Two words.......Ohio State.
No seriously, the meetings aren't even being held in Canada, we all fell for the feint.....

 

[vonGarvin]

Bit hard when the rock throwers follow and join the larger peaceful and non-violence protest around.

So, let me get this straight.  You protest this, and you protest that, and then the rock throwers come out.  I would offer next time you head out, you find a charismatic speaker, and when the rock throwers start to manifest (eg: they have masks on their faces, and their pockets are full of rocks, FYI), then protest THEM!  blockade THEM!  Turn them over to the police!  Complain that they are destroying your message of peace.  THAT, my friend, would buy you much more POSITIVE press than all the rock throwers.  And let's face it, Joe Q Paycheque couldn't give a damn about globalisation theories, and even less so when he sees images of unemployed youth damaging public property.  Now, if he saw OTHER unemployed youth protesting those hooligans, well, he just might take notice.

Because as a typical Joe Q Paycheque, I can tell you that those rock throwers only serve to piss me off and turn me OFF of their message.  Avoid Hyperbole, avoid generalistations, just focus on the message and work WITH the police to stop the rock throwers.  That would buy you more support than all the topless women you could muster

 

[mellian]

Has it ever occurred to you that if people didn't riot, the security forces would be overjoyed not to be geared up?  It's not the most comfortable or flattering ensemble, you know.

Yes, especially during the summer heat of June.

 

[The Bread Guy]

This from the National Post, shared in accordance with the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright  Act:

he University of Toronto will close its doors during the upcoming G20 summit, CTV Toronto reported yesterday. The university will set up a protest perimeter on university grounds, but only limited personnel will be allowed inside the premises from June 24 to June 27. The university said they decided to close the premises for four days when they found out Queen's Park would be the official protest zone. Some exams were rescheduled as a result. The university's close comes amidst security concerns. Last week, an anarchist group claiming responsibility for firebombing an Ottawa bank said they will make an appearance at the summit. In their online message, the group identified as FFFC stated, "On June 25 to 27, 2010, the G8/G20 'leaders' and bankers are meeting in Huntsville and Toronto to make decisions that will further their policies of exploitation of people and the environment. We will be there."

Some excerpts from the latest from SOAR (PDF attached if link doesn't work):

Why isn't MSM asking the right questions?

The G20 summit in Toronto is still more than a month away, and yet already the newspapers are excitedly setting the stage for a showdown. “Cops versus Protestors” they write, as if the people gathering together to demonstrate is somehow on par with the largest security deployment by the canadian state since the Second World War. 'Who are these scary violent protestors,' the newspapers ask, 'and why won't they answer my emails?'

But they never manage to ask the important questions, like why do we accept 15 000 cops invading our streets, while being scared when a few of our neighbours gather to protest? In this statement, we seek to answer some of the questions that the mainstream media should be asking, if their work was to be at all worthwhile.

(....)

The ruling elite, using the mainstream media as a tool, counts on us forgetting about the past obscenities by the time the next one rolls around. They count on us to have short memories, to not recognize the patterns, and certainly not to follow those patterns back to their root. And when we resist, they tell us that we're the ones in the wrong. Then they carry on reporting about the world and about communities as if violence was not in every aspect of our modern civilization. But the destruction of the earth is far more violent than sabotaged machinery, and the presence of armed uniformed thugs enforcing capitalist rule in our communities is far more violent than the destruction of corporate property. The capitalist state threatens our very lives with its violence -- capitalism exploits us to sell ourselves by the hour, and this earth is being poisoned at an increasing rate. The same money that runs the corporate media is the money that is running this earth to the ground.

For their role in pacifying us and excusing the ongoing, heinous actions of the canadian state and corporations, we consider the mainstream media to be totally complicit in those acts. For their lies, they share in the responsibility with the scumbags who will be assembling inside the security perimeter this June in Toronto. They are part of the oppressive structure that we want to dismantle. 

"State violence", bad, "demonstrating our discontent", good!

The state’s violence is routine and deliberate. It is not an accident. This violence is necessary for the capitalist, colonial system to continue. The mainstream media presents each killing, each oil spill, each military coup, each case of corruption as being an isolated incident, as an exception. They make all the right sounds, pretending outrage and regret, and sometimes they show us some lone scapegoat getting punished. They make excuses for the system, lulling us with sweet lies even as the system lurches already towards its next victim.

And when we rise up to demonstrate our discontent, the mainstream media faithfully make a few broken windows seem like unacceptable violence. But it doesn't take a lot of thought to see who are the truly violent members of our society. Are a few broken windows more important than the growing pile of corpses left by the occupation of afghanistan? Than entire communities stamped out by canadian mining companies? Than ecosystems and habitats destroyed by oil spills? Than yet another racialized youth murdered by cops? This system is built on violence, and as communities of resistance we must respond.

Whatever it takes...

By taking to the streets, we are rejecting the power of self-proclaimed leaders to control our lives and to go on destroying the planet and enslaving its inhabitants. We are not asking the G8/G20 to change their policies – we do not want a kinder, gentler system of oppression. We are trying to stop these “leaders”, to make it impossible for them to enforce their twisted policies.

As anarchists, to achieve this goal, we build the alternatives we want to see – we organize grassroots community services, create spaces for education, publish media, grow our own food, and explore direct democracy and alternative models of conflict resolution. And as well, we use direct action to protect ourselves and our communities from destruction when they come under attack. We seek to build communities based on freedom and mutual aid while actively resisting the violence of the state. We believe in a diversity of strategies and tactics, and we stand with all who resist.

 

[The Bread Guy]

This from Global TV/CanWest:

Security costs for the G8 and G20 summits, which are being billed as the biggest security events in Canadian history, are expected to increase fivefold over original estimates and reach almost $1 billion.

A spokeswoman for Public Safety Minister Vic Toews acknowledged Tuesday that the federal government has budgeted up to $930 million —a dramatic increase over the $179 million set aside in the March budget.

Christine Csversko said the costs are based on a "medium-level threat assessment" and she cautioned that the final bill will not be known until the summits are over.

"The scope and magnitude of the security operations associated with hosting two major summits back to back is unprecedented — representing the largest deployment of security personnel for a major event in Canadian history," Csversko wrote in an e-mail ....

 

[mariomike]

"Hospitals prepare for G20 injuries":
"the prospect of mass injuries is very real":
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/814291--hospitals-prepare-for-g20-injuries


"In Pittsburgh, the total number of room-nights booked was 26,000, VisitPittsburgh says. The RCMP alone wants twice that number.
The heavy hitters include the “four diamond” airport properties run by Westin and Marriott as well as the Old Mill Inn and Spa near the Kingsway."
http://network.nationalpost.com/NP/blogs/toronto/archive/2010/03/18/rcmp-needs-5-500-rooms-during-g20-summit.aspx

I love the Old Mill. It is very near to where I live. I have never stayed overnight there, but have been there countless times for dinner dances, Sunday brunch, wedding receptions, and week-night drinks. You will not want to go home after they spoil you!:
http://www.oldmilltoronto.com/accommodations.html

 

[R. Jorgensen]

Oh lordy...

WHERE CAN I SIGN UP?  ;D :

Just kidding, I'm all for using your right to peaceful demonstration... but it still sickens me. We're not Europe, a protest isn't going to change anything because our government is scared of us and fears another revolution.

 

[Kat Stevens]

ANOTHER revolution?  Did I miss something?  My satellite receiver was down for a while.

 

[R. Jorgensen]

ANOTHER revolution?  Did I miss something?  My satellite receiver was down for a while.

Have you ever wondered why most European nations have free, socialized Post-Secondary education? Sure, they pay a little bit more in taxes than we do, but damn is it worth it (watch Michael Moore's Sicko); it's because the people demanded it. In Europe, the government is afraid of the people (because of past revolutions, the governments fear that if they do not please the people; there will be another revolution) so what tends to happen when the people make a big stink about something (and most of the time are nearly 100% non-violent demonstrations) - they correct it, make the nation happy and move on.

However in North America, it's exactly the opposite. The people are affraid of the government, the government decides what goes and what doesn't and the only reason why the demonstrations get violent is because the government oppresses protest and does not consider changes when such occurences arise (sure, you can't always give in to the populace - but that's what elections are for  ). Europe has a good hold on democracy (Canada not so bad, reminds me of Denmark a little bit - except Denmark has free Univ and much better social services); North America is unfortunately flawed in it's democratic ways.

Although, I'm not complaining about Canada, I love it here  ;D (Free Post-Secondary would be nice though  :crybaby: )

 

[Thompson_JM]

Not everyone trust them, especially when they are there in riot gear and armed with batons, tear gas, and guns. I do not fear the police, but I know how riled up they can be themselves during such intense events making it wiser to avoid them.

Little Theory here.... Maybe its because they are genuinely concerned about being able to go home at the end of the day to see their family....

Something about being heavily outnumbered by a bunch of ninja mask mouth breathing "Anarchists" (who lets face it... if these lands truly resorted to anarchy, would very quickly become some Hells Angels B***) who want to do nothing more then try to destroy a city and watch it burn....

I still cant figure out why you want to join the Canadian Forces....  You seem to embrace everything it is not...  Or is this just another protest to 'buck' the system... another Non-Conformist Statement?

Seriously.... The CF is not a @#$ing Job... its a career and a lifestyle choice.... It becomes a HUGE part of who you are. Hell... I'm a reservist with 12 years of Part time service and its done more for me as far as who I am and my core values then anything I've ever done anywhere else... I can only imagine the full timers and how much its become a part of who they are.

I don't know how you think you could survive a career in the CF.... hell, I don't know how you think you'll survive a week at St Jean...

Since you clearly lack one of the most important skills a Private recruit needs to know to survive... Pick your battles....

Gah.... Now I'm all riled up.....  Damned Anarchists....

 

[zipperhead_cop]

As for the photographers, most of them usually part of the media (independent or corporate or student), freelancers, and just random people.  Not much the groups can do anything about it, even if they wanted to.

Well, since you are the organizer, you put one in charge of documenting unlawful action.  Or do it yourself.

And to do so in the middle of a protest risk discrediting myself, removing any remote control or influence as marshal or one of the organizers.

Ah!  And there is the crux of it.  You care more about your "street cred" with these donkeys than obeying the law and assisting the legitimate authorities.  It wouldn't be "cool" to do and you'd be excluded from being one of the insiders anymore.  That is pathetic and is beyond lacking in integrity.
And you already stated you have no control after you are on the street, so unless you are directing people towards civil disobedience, you know you have no control. 

So, let me get this straight.  You protest this, and you protest that, and then the rock throwers come out.  I would offer next time you head out, you find a charismatic speaker, and when the rock throwers start to manifest (eg: they have masks on their faces, and their pockets are full of rocks, FYI), then protest THEM!  blockade THEM!  Turn them over to the police!  Complain that they are destroying your message of peace. 

Ah, but then they'd lose their street cred and not be invited to the next "Act Like An Arsehole In Public And Pretend To Have A Message" get together.  All of these "peaceful protesters" condone and support the violence by their failure to act or even speak out when there are anarchists in with them.  They get off on them "sticking it to the man" but are even bigger bed wetters because they just watch and won't step up for their hickory massage. 

Because as a typical Joe Q Paycheque, I can tell you that those rock throwers only serve to piss me off and turn me OFF of their message.

But the rock throwers don't HAVE a message.  They are just tools living in mom's basement that need to break things but not be held accountable for it. 

 

[vonGarvin]

Now, of course, if those rock throwers turned into rock painters, I'd be pretty happy with that lot ;D

Now, for "Big Beef": ever wonder why the Euro is going into the toilet?  Those so-called "free" things such as post secondary, healthcare, etc.  Well, they aren't exactly free.  They are paid for by taxpayers.  So, Joe Q Highschool Graduate may not shell out that money, but Joe Q Taxpayer is. 

PS: Avoid Michael Moore.  That fat little mouth breathing hypocrite is as bad as Josef Goebbels.

 

[heavygunner]

PS: Avoid Michael Moore.  That fat little mouth breathing hypocrite is as bad as Josef Goebbels.

hahaha  ;D well said.

 

[Journeyman]

That fat little mouth breathing hypocrite is as bad as Josef Goebbels.

Nice. 12 pages before resorting to Mike Godwin's reductio ad Hitlerum.  ;D

 

[vonGarvin]

Nice. 12 pages before resorting to Mike Godwin's reductio ad Hitlerum.  ;D

:rofl:
Almost, but not quite.  But, prior to my reductio ad Goebbelsum, it went to reductio ad Fatheadum   >